What are you getting so hostile about? Maybe you should back off the caffiene a bit, eh? If you don't agree with me, fine, but there's no need for personal attacks. I've tried to maintain a reasonable and respectful tone in my posts and I suggest you do the same. Bill isn't offended by my last post, so why are you getting so worked up?

: Correct, Brian - How to build them, not how to design them. And least of all,
: not from some jamoke who comes on board having never even built and posted
: about a test panel, much less a kayak. There seem to be 3 posters, George,
: Nolan, and yourself, who are neophite wanna-be kayak design engineers, and
: continue to try to force-feed your crappy design innovations down the
: throats of kayak builders, with no proof other than your mouths.

First off, I'm not trying to force anything down anyone's throats and I defy you so show me otherwise. I joined in the discussion here to share what I've learned from snooping around sites with glass layup information. What you or anyone else here chooses to do with that information is entirely up to you.

: I would politely suggest that y'all move to the kayak design discussion board,
: bounce around your ideas there, produce a commercially successful kayak
: design, and perhaps, if any of us buy one of your plan/kit sets, we will
: then discuss building details here. This is a Kayak Building Board by
: definition, not an outlet for your kayak engineering fantasies.

Politely? Hmmm. I'd hate to see what you're like when you're being impolite! ;-)

Perhaps this should be discussed on the design forum, but there doesn't appear to be much activity there. You seem to have no problem with discussing your designs here and asking for design related responses. Frankly, I've found your posts and your web site to be pretty interesting, but I probably wouldn't have found them if they were on the design forum.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Nick Schade moderates this forum, doesn't he? If I'm out of line by posting here or my conduct is unacceptable, I would expect that he would chastise me for it. I've read the guidelines for the forum and I honestly don't think I've strayed beyond them.

: Until then, your half-baked ideas, which change by the day, are merely a
: distraction when posted, and reposted, and reposted, etc. If you chose to
: be a PITA, you earned an A+ just like George. But you have not proven
: anything, other than your arrogance and general lack of engineering
: insight. Use the scientific method first, and then the mouth second.

So I take it that no one else's tests - including the tests by glass and epoxy manufacturers - mean anything to you? The experience of boat builders in other fields besides kayaks doesn't mean anything? For a guy who's constantly pushing the limits in his own designs (which is something I admire, BTW), that's an awfully closed-minded attitude. For that matter, have you designed and built more boats than George?

: To prove this point, why not take a poll as to who would trust your
: recommended building techniques for their next kayak? That is, 1/8"
: soft (hand selected as lightest) lumber, lots of (misplaced) thin layups
: on the outer (abrasion purposeful) hull, etc . . . I think it would be
: fun. If you don't, perhaps I will.

These are George's techniques, not mine. If you look at what I've written, all I've said is that from what I've learned elsewhere, there is merit to what George does. If you disagree, fine, but I don't see where discussing alternative construction methods can be anything but beneficial.

: THREE GEORGES???

Hardly. While I think George has some good ideas and I respect his opinion, I would certainly hope that others here can make the distinction in our personalities. You berate George for being agressive and confrontational, yet you take the same tack in this post. What's up with that?

: Spidey

: NOTE TO FELLOW NEWBY BUILDERS - Please don't fall into this crap-trap - Look
: at the people who have done, are doing, and who post their techniques and
: photos. It is easy to talk, much harder to produce. Check out how much
: info is provided by the people you wish to emulate. There are 1,000's of
: home built wood composite kayaks on the water, proven in a lot of
: conditions, from a lot of designers. Check out what Ross, Dale, Shawn,
: Dean, Mike, etc., have done, and then check out what the above mentioned 3
: wannabee kayak designers have done - - Oops, those 3 WKDs have no
: construction stuff to show! Darn! But you get the point . . .

I my case, you're correct, I have yet to build my first boat. I've made this very clear. I'm still deciding on whose design I'll build and what construction technique I'll use, which is why I'm here. Who knows, I may do exactly what you do. I haven't criticised you or any of the other builders here for their techniques. In fact, I have a great deal of respect for all of you I find the variation in your construction methods quite interesting. There's obviously more than one way to build a nice boat.

I have no idea what Nolan's experience level is. Howevery, if you want to see some examples of George's boats, all you have to do is go to his web site.

Spidey, I suggest you relax and chill out a bit. It's not healthy to get so worked up over a hobby. The whole point is to have fun, isn't it?