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Safety priorities....
By:Will Brockman
Date: 4/20/2000, 8:49 pm
In Response To: Re: The right to make unsupported statements..... (Dean Trexel)

If we were to turn this into a discussion on how to improve kayaking safety,
: which is a worthy subject, I wonder how many experienced paddlers would
: put composite layup strength on the top of the list? I certainly would
: not. [Bruce]

: Many engineers, experienced or unexperienced in kayaking, would not rule out
: composites * * * * A carbon-fiber bike could be well-made that would be safer than poorly-made titanium bike. [Dean]

Dean--

I understood Bruce to be making a different point. We all recognize the value of composite construction. I'm downright awed by it. But the differential effects on safety of the competing composite layups discussed here must be rather inconsequential in the scheme of things.

2 layers of satin 3.2 oz e-glass interior and exterior at x:y glass:resin ratio vs. 1 layer of 6 oz e-glass exterior and 1 layer of 5 oz kevlar interior, both vacuum bagged at x:z fiber:resin ratio. I think there could be good and interesting arguments about which layup is "superior." I even think it might be possible for someone to win the argument, convincing others with laboratory or real-world test results (Unfortunately, many of the discussions do not provide such supporting data, but instead rely on blustery assertions of engineering prowess and childish personal attacks.)

In any event, whichever layup is "superior," I'd be willing to bet that there are a dozen other aspects of kayak design and construction that have a bigger impact on paddler safety. Where the bulkheads are placed, how well the hatches seal, a comfortable cockpit that minimizes paddler fatigue, deck lines and a strong rear deck for re-entries, visibility on the water, etc.

--Will

Messages In This Thread

Safety, two points
Nolan -- 4/20/2000, 9:32 am
Re: Safety, two points
Rehd -- 4/22/2000, 3:59 am
Re: Safety, two points
Erez -- 4/22/2000, 10:16 pm
Re: What information do you want?
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 4/21/2000, 11:49 am
Re: What information do you want?
Nolan -- 4/21/2000, 12:33 pm
Re: P.S.
Nolan -- 4/21/2000, 12:36 pm
Re: Seat of the pants tests
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 4/21/2000, 2:10 pm
Re: Seat of the pants tests
Don Beale -- 4/21/2000, 9:09 pm
Re: Seat of the pants tests
Nolan -- 4/21/2000, 2:46 pm
Re: Seat of the pants tests
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 4/21/2000, 4:19 pm
Re: Seat of the pants tests
Ross Leidy -- 4/21/2000, 4:43 pm
Re: Seat of the pants tests
simon king -- 4/21/2000, 5:07 pm
I do agree
Marcelo -- 4/21/2000, 5:58 pm
Re: I do agree
Ian Johnston -- 4/22/2000, 2:18 am
Re: I do agree
Dean Trexel -- 4/23/2000, 1:29 pm
Off topic: Banana Republic Citizen
Marcelo -- 4/22/2000, 3:16 pm
Re: Off topic: Banana Republic Citizen
Ian Johnston -- 4/22/2000, 7:02 pm
Re: Diesels for marine use ...
John B. -- 4/22/2000, 6:47 pm
Re: Avoidance/responsibility
Ian Johnston -- 4/21/2000, 3:37 pm
Re: P.S.
Ian Johnston -- 4/21/2000, 1:22 pm
Re: martial soap operas
lee -- 4/21/2000, 7:54 pm
Re: Well Put
Mike Hanks -- 4/21/2000, 2:05 pm
Re: Well Put
Dean Trexel -- 4/21/2000, 2:23 pm
Re: What information do you want?
Dean Trexel -- 4/21/2000, 12:22 pm
Re: What information do you want?
Bill Heuser -- 4/22/2000, 6:07 am
Time to step back and take a deep breath
Brian Nystrom -- 4/22/2000, 9:36 am
Re: Your Flame Sucks
Spidey -- 4/23/2000, 1:27 am
A little testy, are we?
Brian Nystrom -- 4/23/2000, 7:18 am
Re: Time to step back and take a deep breath
Bill Heuser -- 4/22/2000, 5:17 pm
Re: What information do you want?
Richard -- 4/22/2000, 7:54 am
Re: What information do you want?
Don Beale -- 4/21/2000, 12:19 pm
Re: What information do you want?
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 4/21/2000, 12:33 pm
Re: What information do you want?
Don Beale -- 4/21/2000, 8:58 pm
Re: There are no standards
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 4/22/2000, 9:53 am
Re: Propriatary data
Don Beale -- 4/23/2000, 11:55 pm
Re: safety,reality,and b.s.
lee -- 4/21/2000, 12:54 am
Well put Lee (nt) *NM*
Doug Keaster -- 4/21/2000, 9:05 am
Re: safety,reality,and b.s.
Nolan -- 4/21/2000, 8:03 am
Re: Good morning
lee -- 4/21/2000, 9:24 am
Re: safety,reality,and b.s.
Brian G. -- 4/21/2000, 9:10 am
Re: safety,reality,and b.s.
Brian G. -- 4/21/2000, 1:55 am
The right to make unsupported statements.....
Bruce -- 4/20/2000, 4:03 pm
Re: oops!
Dean Trexel -- 4/20/2000, 9:47 pm
Re: oops!
Bruce -- 4/20/2000, 10:12 pm
Re: oops!
Brian Nystrom -- 4/20/2000, 10:58 pm
Re: oops!
Brian G. -- 4/21/2000, 12:37 am
Re: The right to make unsupported statements.....
Dean Trexel -- 4/20/2000, 5:31 pm
Safety priorities....
Will Brockman -- 4/20/2000, 8:49 pm
Now THIS I agree with!!!
Doug Keaster -- 4/20/2000, 4:48 pm
Well written points by Nolan.
Allen R. -- 4/20/2000, 2:19 pm
Re: Well written points by Nolan.
Nolan -- 4/21/2000, 7:44 am
Re: Safety, two points
Dean Trexel -- 4/20/2000, 12:24 pm
Re: Safety, two points
Chicken Little -- 4/21/2000, 10:39 am
Re: Safety, two points
Ken Finger -- 4/20/2000, 11:38 am
Re: Safety, two points
Nolan -- 4/21/2000, 7:50 am
Re: Safety, two points
Derek -- 4/20/2000, 11:37 am
An outsider's perspective
Brian Nystrom -- 4/20/2000, 1:30 pm
Re: An outsider's perspective
Dean Trexel -- 4/20/2000, 2:05 pm
Not true, from what I've seen
Brian Nystrom -- 4/20/2000, 2:48 pm
Re: Not true, from what I've seen
Dean Trexel -- 4/20/2000, 5:13 pm
Re: Not true, from what I've seen
Brian Nystrom -- 4/20/2000, 10:41 pm
Re: Bryan
lee -- 4/21/2000, 1:39 am
Here you go.
Brian Nystrom -- 4/21/2000, 8:02 am
Re: Strength Data Graphs *Pic*
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 4/21/2000, 12:28 pm
Re: Strength Data Graphs
Brian Nystrom -- 4/21/2000, 12:51 pm
Re: Strength Data Graphs
Shawn B -- 4/21/2000, 4:04 pm
Re: wood density
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 4/21/2000, 4:25 pm
Re: wood density
Bill Heuser -- 4/22/2000, 4:38 pm
Re: Optimized Boats
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 4/21/2000, 3:01 pm
Agreed
Brian Nystrom -- 4/21/2000, 5:08 pm
Re: Agreed
Ian Johnston -- 4/21/2000, 5:45 pm
Re: Well Said, Nick!! *NM*
Ian Johnston -- 4/21/2000, 3:42 pm
Re: Here you go.
lee -- 4/21/2000, 8:59 am
Fair enough, but...
Brian Nystrom -- 4/21/2000, 10:19 am
Re: p.s. guys in a snit
lee -- 4/21/2000, 9:17 am
Off topic, but since you went there...
Brian Nystrom -- 4/21/2000, 10:56 am
Re: Off topic, but since you went there...
lee -- 4/21/2000, 7:36 pm
Re: Lee
Ian Johnston -- 4/21/2000, 3:16 am
Re: Lee
lee -- 4/21/2000, 9:07 am
Re: Hondas and Suburban/Guillemot and Roberts
Ian Johnston -- 4/21/2000, 12:54 pm
Re: Lee
Bill Heuser -- 4/21/2000, 6:03 am
Re: Lee
James Neely -- 4/21/2000, 7:32 am
Madness continues
Dale Frolander -- 4/21/2000, 3:10 am
A nibble of crow.
Dale Frolander -- 4/22/2000, 3:38 am
Good points, Dale.
Brian Nystrom -- 4/21/2000, 10:34 am
Re: Good points, Dale.
Dale Frolander -- 4/21/2000, 11:57 am
Raka
Brian Nystrom -- 4/21/2000, 12:16 pm
Re: Raka
Ross Leidy -- 4/21/2000, 2:18 pm
Raka glass with MAS epoxy
Allen R. -- 4/24/2000, 3:32 pm
Re: Raka glass with MAS epoxy
Dan Lindberg -- 4/24/2000, 5:50 pm
Re: Experience with this layup *Pic*
Mike Hanks -- 4/21/2000, 1:04 pm
Practice makes perfect
Brian Nystrom -- 4/21/2000, 5:02 pm
Re: Raka
Dale Frolander -- 4/21/2000, 12:37 pm
Re: It runs when you leave the room
Shawn B -- 4/21/2000, 3:52 pm
Re: Raka
Dean Trexel -- 4/21/2000, 12:29 pm
Re: Madness continues
lee -- 4/21/2000, 9:29 am
Re: Safety, two points
Ross Leidy -- 4/20/2000, 10:11 am
Re: Safety, two points
Rob Forsell -- 4/20/2000, 9:57 am