Boat Building Forum

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Re: The Long Boat Myth
By:Terry Haines
Date: 6/18/2009, 11:45 pm
In Response To: Re: The Long Boat Myth (Bill Hamm)

: If you look at commercially available kayaks you'll tend to notice that there
: are lots of skeg shaped stern ends on shorter boats that don't show up on
: longer ones. Assuming that most commercial designers know what they are
: doing (sometimes you can argue that point) I'd say that the longer boats
: tend to track better than shorter ones.

: My experience says the same, wonder about other's experience?

: Bill H.

I'll add my 2c worth if I may, based on practical observation rather than software on the following 3 boats:

#1: 9' LWL, 30" BWL rotomolded: has the longest glide of the three by far.
#2: 11.5' LWL, 24" BWL plywood: fastest at "normal" levels of effort by far; best tracker.
#3: 12.5' LWL, 24" BWL rotomolded, rudder: fastest at flat out levels of effort, but only just.

These are based on boat-to-boat comparison with 2 paddlers of same age and general fitness and holds true regardless which paddler is in which boat, although the heaviest paddler is somewhat handicapped by a wrist problem. The boat differences outweighed the paddler differences.

This validates both the short boat/lowest area/least lowspeed drag expectation and the "longest boat/highest speed" prediction.

...

That said, boat #2 is the one people want to paddle once they have tried them all, as at cruising speeds it is way ahead on distance covered vs effort expended. The commercial designers may know what they are doing but they can be handicapped by the technology; the rotomolded boats clearly pay a performance price due to the bluff stems required to get the plastic to cover the ends, despite the advantage of rounded hull shapes vs hard chines.

The (homebuilt) ply boat's stems are about 1/4 the radius of the plastic boats, and the bending characteristics of the ply resulted in a beautifully streamlined underwater shape. On the downside, it tracks too well for some situations as it is hard to turn.

#1 is still inuse as it is incredibly stable and the perfect puddle hopper and stream explorer. #3, supposedly a performance boat, has very little merit in any area and very rarely gets wet. There's more to this than just speed.

Messages In This Thread

Skin-on-Frame: Fast, Playful SOF *Pic*
Michael Collins -- 6/8/2009, 11:10 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Fast, Playful SOF
Aaron H -- 6/9/2009, 3:36 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Fast, Playful SOF
Michael Collins -- 6/9/2009, 10:39 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Fast, Playful SOF
Aaron H -- 6/10/2009, 6:11 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Fast, Playful SOF
Brian Scaborough -- 6/10/2009, 10:21 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Fast, Playful SOF
John D. -- 6/10/2009, 3:02 pm
The Long Boat Myth *LINK* *Pic*
Kudzu -- 6/9/2009, 7:43 pm
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Mike Savage -- 6/11/2009, 7:01 pm
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Johne -- 6/11/2009, 12:08 pm
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Michael -- 6/11/2009, 10:23 am
Re: The Long Boat Myth *Pic*
Allan -- 6/11/2009, 3:54 am
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Bill Hamm -- 6/11/2009, 9:50 am
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Kudzu -- 6/11/2009, 11:56 am
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Michael Collins -- 6/11/2009, 1:58 pm
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Kudzu -- 6/11/2009, 5:33 pm
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Bill Hamm -- 6/13/2009, 1:23 am
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Terry Haines -- 6/18/2009, 11:45 pm
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Bill Hamm -- 6/19/2009, 11:39 am
Re: The Long Boat Myth
John F Monroe -- 6/24/2009, 5:42 am
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Terry Haines -- 6/19/2009, 6:33 pm
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Bill Hamm -- 6/11/2009, 1:26 pm
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Kudzu -- 6/11/2009, 7:42 am
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Allan -- 6/11/2009, 8:02 am
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Kudzu -- 6/11/2009, 9:19 am
Re: The Long Boat Myth
West -- 6/11/2009, 4:23 am
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Allan -- 6/11/2009, 7:45 am
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Ken Brunton -- 6/10/2009, 11:13 am
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Kudzu -- 6/10/2009, 1:40 pm
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Michael Collins -- 6/10/2009, 2:16 pm
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Kudzu -- 6/10/2009, 7:52 pm
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Bill Hamm -- 6/10/2009, 3:44 pm
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Michael Collins -- 6/9/2009, 10:26 pm
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Kudzu -- 6/10/2009, 8:33 am
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 6/10/2009, 8:49 am
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Kudzu -- 6/10/2009, 1:08 pm
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 6/11/2009, 10:35 am
Hey Nick
Kudzu -- 6/12/2009, 10:18 am
Single change??
Allan -- 6/12/2009, 6:47 pm
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Kudzu -- 6/11/2009, 12:04 pm
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Glen Smith -- 6/9/2009, 8:16 pm
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Kudzu -- 6/10/2009, 8:17 am
Re: The Long Boat Myth
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 6/10/2009, 8:57 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Fast, Playful SOF
Bill Hamm -- 6/9/2009, 1:15 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Fast, Playful SOF
Brian Scaborough -- 6/9/2009, 8:32 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Fast, Playful SOF
wwfloyd -- 6/10/2009, 7:47 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Fast, Playful SOF
Bill Hamm -- 6/11/2009, 1:00 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Fast, Playful SOF *LINK* *Pic*
Tom Yost -- 6/9/2009, 10:24 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Fast, Playful SOF
Bill Hamm -- 6/9/2009, 8:28 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Fast, Playful SOF
Tom Yost -- 6/10/2009, 12:41 am
LMAO!
Robert N Pruden -- 6/9/2009, 2:43 pm
Re: LMAO! *Pic*
Tom Yost -- 6/9/2009, 6:13 pm
Re: LMAO!
Bill Hamm -- 6/9/2009, 8:30 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Fast, Playful SOF
Brian Scaborough -- 6/9/2009, 10:40 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Fast, Playful SOF
Michael Collins -- 6/9/2009, 11:11 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Fast, Playful SOF
Brian Scaborough -- 6/10/2009, 1:00 pm
Balancing Gear
Michael Collins -- 6/10/2009, 2:01 pm
Re: Balancing Gear
Bill Hamm -- 6/10/2009, 3:40 pm
Re: Balancing Gear *LINK*
Brian Scaborough -- 6/10/2009, 2:27 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Fast, Playful SOF *Pic*
Tom Yost -- 6/9/2009, 11:01 am
I've done that, too, but only with the Guinness.
Robert N Pruden -- 6/9/2009, 2:46 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Fast, Playful SOF
Brian Scarborough -- 6/9/2009, 12:00 am
Rider, Ranger?
Michael Collins -- 6/9/2009, 11:07 pm
Re: Rider, Ranger?
Bill Hamm -- 6/10/2009, 2:27 am