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Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak *PIC*
By:Dave Gentry
Date: 10/22/2010, 7:52 am
In Response To: Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak (Phil Nelson)

: Hi Tim,

: I have often wondered about trying the same thing but have never
: gone through with it. These are some of the random thoughts I
: have had:

: 1).. The laminated section will be heavier than a solid timber
: section due to the adhesive.
: 2).. Forming the sheer with the proportionally thinner stock would
: probably cause buckling issues. It should still be possible, but
: getting the stock to hold the correct shape might be a bit like
: hearding cats.
: 3).. The way around the buckling would be to laminate the section
: while it's straight, then bend it during construction, just like
: normal. This will, however, put a shear load on the adhesive
: joint and the laminated section would probably be harder to bend
: due to the inflexability of the adhesive. In the long run the
: laminated section may actually end-up a little weaker than a
: solid section, but whether it'll be weakened to the point of
: being a concern is anyone's guess.
: 4).. Probably the strongest solution would be to assemble the
: inwale to the deck beams while the deck beams are secured to
: building forms, then working outwards, attach the spacer rib,
: then the outwale. That way there is no stress being applied to
: the adhesive by being bent when set, and having steady building
: forms will allow you to wrangle the inwales to the correct shape
: without buckling & bulges.

: Like I said, these are just a few thoughts without practical
: experience to back any of it up. If anyone has tried doing this
: I look forward to hearing what actually works/doesn't work.

: Regards,

: Phil.

I'm with Paul on this - that it will work - as I also have built a number of canoes and rowboats this way. I don't think that you will be saving a substantial amount of time or effort, when all is said and done, though.
Phil, I just can't agree, having built a large pile of boats, with any of your points! 1 - An ounce or two (or more) of glue will never be noticed, 2- there is no buckling problem, 3 - laminating something in place is actually one (very good) way to ensure not only that it keeps that shape, but that it is also stronger than a non-laminated piece, and - #4 would work, but its necessity is predicated upon the other points.
Not trying to be combative, it's just that my experience with actually doing this does not coincide with your theories. YRMV

Here's a pic of one of my canoes. As Paul says, adding a deck would be a trivial matter.
(and yes, this canoe is skinned and ready to paddle here.)

Dave Gentry

Messages In This Thread

Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak
Tim Abbott -- 10/22/2010, 12:41 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak *PIC*
Tim Abbott -- 2/24/2011, 12:38 pm
Re:Launching: Mortise free kayak *PIC*
Tim Abbott -- 3/19/2011, 3:27 pm
Re:Launching: Mortise free kayak
lance buck -- 3/21/2011, 1:36 pm
Re:Launching: Mortise free kayak
Tim Abbott -- 3/21/2011, 7:30 pm
Re:Launching: Mortise free kayak *PIC*
Tim Abbott -- 3/19/2011, 3:29 pm
Re:Launching: Mortise free kayak
Ian Cummins -- 3/19/2011, 9:50 pm
Re:Launching: Mortise free kayak
dan -- 3/19/2011, 5:02 pm
Re:Launching: Mortise free kayak
Tim Abbott -- 3/19/2011, 11:12 pm
Re:Launching: Mortise free kayak
Dan -- 3/20/2011, 4:37 pm
Re:Launching: Mortise free kayak
Dan -- 3/21/2011, 10:06 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak *PIC*
Tim Abbott -- 2/24/2011, 2:05 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak
Thomas Duncan -- 2/25/2011, 12:18 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak
Tim Abbott -- 2/25/2011, 11:11 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak
Thomas Duncan -- 2/25/2011, 11:33 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak
Tim Abbott -- 2/25/2011, 9:17 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak
Bill Hamm -- 2/25/2011, 7:08 am
Skin-on-Frame: skin coatings
Paul G. Jacobson -- 2/25/2011, 2:50 am
skin coatings * Dur-Tuff
Kudzu / Jeff Horton -- 2/25/2011, 9:41 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: skin coatings *PIC*
Thomas Duncan -- 2/25/2011, 10:07 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: skin coatings
John Faas -- 2/26/2011, 11:45 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: skin coatings
Dave Gentry -- 2/26/2011, 1:57 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: skin coatings *PIC*
Thomas Duncan -- 2/25/2011, 10:24 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak
Kudzu -- 2/24/2011, 3:19 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak *PIC*
Tim Abbott -- 2/25/2011, 10:21 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak
Kudzu -- 2/25/2011, 11:12 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak *PIC*
Tim Abbott -- 2/24/2011, 12:42 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak *PIC*
Tim Abbott -- 2/24/2011, 2:09 pm
Pic problem
Noel Bennett -- 2/24/2011, 1:43 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak *PIC*
Tim Abbott -- 2/24/2011, 12:40 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak *NM* *PIC*
Tim Abbott -- 2/24/2011, 2:06 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak
Tim Abbott -- 10/24/2010, 1:34 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak *PIC*
Tim Abbott -- 11/13/2010, 11:37 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak *PIC*
Tim Abbott -- 11/13/2010, 11:40 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak *PIC*
Tim Abbott -- 11/13/2010, 11:42 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak *PIC*
Tim Abbott -- 11/27/2010, 11:34 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak *PIC*
Tim Abbott -- 11/27/2010, 11:36 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak *PIC*
Tim Abbott -- 11/27/2010, 11:40 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak
Scott Shurlow -- 11/29/2010, 12:53 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak
Tim Abbott -- 11/30/2010, 12:56 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak
Mike Savage -- 11/30/2010, 7:16 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak *PIC*
Tim Abbott -- 11/27/2010, 11:42 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak *PIC*
Tim Abbott -- 11/27/2010, 11:46 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak
Bill Hamm -- 11/28/2010, 12:22 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak
Tim Abbott -- 11/28/2010, 12:47 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak
Bill Hamm -- 11/28/2010, 1:03 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak
Kocho -- 10/23/2010, 1:29 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak *PIC*
Scott Shurlow -- 10/22/2010, 1:23 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak
Will Clarke -- 10/24/2010, 10:17 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak
Scott Shurlow -- 10/24/2010, 4:31 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak
Tim Abbott -- 10/22/2010, 1:56 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak
Scott Shurlow -- 10/23/2010, 7:30 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak
Tim Abbott -- 10/22/2010, 9:48 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak
Bill Hamm -- 10/23/2010, 1:45 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak
Shark Bait -- 10/23/2010, 1:07 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak
Dave Gentry -- 10/22/2010, 11:02 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak *PIC*
Tim Abbott -- 10/22/2010, 1:48 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak
Stephen Troy -- 10/22/2010, 2:06 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak
Tim Abbott -- 10/23/2010, 12:38 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak
Bill Hamm -- 10/22/2010, 2:22 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak
Phil Nelson -- 10/22/2010, 1:11 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak *PIC*
Dave Gentry -- 10/22/2010, 7:52 am
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak
Phil Nelson -- 10/22/2010, 9:08 pm
Re: Skin-on-Frame: Mortise free kayak *PIC*
Paul Montgomery -- 10/22/2010, 1:57 am