: Thanks Rob,

: I do rely on your instructions and they are very good and it is almost too
: good to be true to have the talent and ear of the designer of my boat
: available on this board. I see that you put considerable effort here to
: help, encourage and (try) to keep novice builders out of trouble.
: "People" are, by their very nature a "pain" sometimes
: .... Noticed you posted an answer (forget the specific thread) that said
: approx: Depends on if you want a fast sports car or a sedan when it comes
: to adding the 2nd layer of glass on the outside bottom of the hull."
: I know everything is in a way "optional" but I would really like
: to hear more about the effects (weight/strength) of adding (not adding)
: the 2nd layer. I have already put the 2nd layer on my hull (I followed
: your instructions:-) but would like to know the facts as much as I could

I am not an engineer. I do not place my trust in numbers on a page.

I research the methods and materials I use, to best of my ability. And I rely on my experience with the materials used in the real world situations I intend for them.

I have worked with fiberglass and resins since the early 70’s when I used these materials in mold making and creating sculpture.

One of the first books on strip building I used as reference was Dave Hazen’s “A Stripper’s Guide to Canoe -building.” Dave recommends using a second, below water only, layer of 6 oz. glass. That’s what I used for a long time.

I've always been interested in reducing weight so I've used 3/16” strips since I started building strippers. I thought about using 1/8” strips like George, but decided not to.

I originally focused on making light-weight canoes which would be easy to portage on my northern Ontario trips. I found that light-weight boats are easier to paddle and much more responsive. I feel every pound less my boat weighs translates into more pleasure, every time I use the boat.

For a time, I was also very interested in building whitewater strippers for my own use. Most whitewater boats are built as strippers in prototype stages. I had the good fortune to have John Berry move into my area and met him at whitewater meetings of the Appalachian Mountain Club. John is a pioneering figure in American WW. He represented the US in Olympics in the fifties and was one of the founder’s of Mad River Canoe. He has built and designed many WW boats. I picked his brain on WW boat construction. I wanted to use Kevlar and he talked me out of it. He said to stick to fiberglass. I also got my ideas about light-weight canoe gunnel construction from John. I never did build a WW stripper for myself, but I wanted to mention this research because I think it is relevant to the current quality of my construction methods.

I’ve used boats with Hazen’s full and second below the waterline lay-up for over ten years. I have found it light-weight and tough enough for hard use on the rock/shoal infested waters of Georgian Bay, Lake Huron, my favorite paddling spot. Last year on GB we were goofing around rolling a bowling ball size round rock when a curve ball smacked the side of my North Star. The kayak was loaded with about 80 pounds of gear and the rock was easily 20 pounds. I don’t know who’s heart stopped longer, mine or my friend’s, who rolled the rock. The rock came in 90 degrees to the hull side and bounced off. This impact was on one layer of 6 oz. inside and out, over 3/16” strips above the waterline. I don’t want to repeat that test out in the wilderness.

On the other hand, if you read Ted Moores’ “CanoeCraft” and now “KayakCraft” he has always used only one layer of 6 oz. with, of course, 1/4” strips.

I’ve built a number of boats using only one layer of 6 oz. with 3/16” thick strips. It’s still quite strong, but abrasion on the hull bottom is going to wear the glass more unless you paddle to avoid a lot of rock contact. If you don’t you may need some repair after a few years. Since you built the boat, obviously it’s easy to repair something like this. AND you can always add the below layer of glass later if you wish.

I’ve run onto and over rocks and shellfish and have never cut through the glass layer. I wondered whether one layer of 6 oz. glass was enough.

Then one day I heard a radio interview of a Adirondack guide boat builder who said he built his boats of 3/16’ cedar. I thought, “holy shit!” he’s not using any glass with 3/16” cedar! Sure he’s got cedar ribs to stiffen the hull, but boy, it’d be pretty easy to narf that puppy up!

So the need for hull toughness and abrasion resistance is relative to your expectations. If you’ve been used to paddling Tupperware tubs, that you drag, kick and bounce off every rock in sight, you’re going to want more glass and more wood.

If on the other hand you’ve been paddling guide boats and are a skilled paddler who can avoid most rocks, you’ll find a light-weight glass lay-up very tough with the responsiveness of “sports car.”

My simple rule of thumb on this is:

Male, under 45 years, testosterone poisoning symptoms = more glass, more wood.

Male, over 45 years, glad he’s still alive, can’t carry much = less glass, less wood.

: because I have been to your site recently and saw the shooting star for
: the first time and I am thinking of building it as a companion boat to the
: N.S. I wonder how much less the S.S weighs than the N.S. And if they could
: be good paddling companions, like if I paddled the N.S. and my girl the
: S.S. Also any other relative comparison's of the 2 that you may care to
: tell us.

The Shooting Star is about 35 pounds when I build one, the North Star about 40.

The Shooting Star would be an excellent companion to the North Star in terms of near similar all-round great performance. I now use my Shooting Star as my day boat. The Shooting Star is a little more nimble and maneuverable than the North Star, but the North Star is a little faster. If you build both you can also use the Shooting Star when she isn’t. Good deal!

: The N.S. is coming along real well and I really am interested in doing flush
: hatches with the rare earth magnets I have read you mention on this board.
: Any more information available on this method ??

: Arthur

I currently include updates to my instruction book covering my version of flush hatch construction and the use of rare earth magnets for hold downs, plus the recessed cockpit coaming I build. If this was not included in the plans you bought, let me know and I’ll send you the update.

All the best,
Rob