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Re: Old cedar might be brittle ??
By:Paul G. Jacobson
Date: 1/31/2000, 7:17 pm
In Response To: Re: Old cedar might be brittle ?? (Spidey)

> I can't set up my forms until I've got my wood ripped - - That is because
> I will use the 2 strongback halves together with 2 workbenches to set up a
> long ripping fence with my radial saw in the middle.

If you are planning to use halves of your strongback to support the boards while they are being ripped, let me suggest that you use them as table extensions instead of fences. Install them so the top of the strongback is level with the table. You can tack a few scraps of wood to the edge of the strongback and use those as a fence. They don't have to touch each other, by the way, You can use short pieces of scrap wood and leave large gaps between them as they will be in line.

You don't need a real long fence on the outfeed side. Unless you can keep the strip separated from the board by exactly the width of the kerf, a fence on the out feed side is not of great use.

> It is a moot point
> anyway - I went through all their cedar today and it's obviously the
> leavings - - Probably picked over for years (a bad flaw or 2 in every
> board).

Just one or two flaws in a board? That's great stuff! Remember, you are cutting this into very narrow strips. If the wood is cheap enough, all you need are a few paths that are clear for the length of the board. The rest may be scrap, or it may become paddle blades. If knots or deformities go all across the board, cut short strips and scarf them into longer ones, or use them as is.

A clear 1x6 is outrageously expensive, and will give about 14 strips. A piece of cedar deck material may have knots, but I still get 14 strips from it. Some are a bit shorter than others. when I get a knot in the middle of a strip the strip tends to fall apart. If these are long enough I just cut the bad part off the end of the strip and use it.

> I am having a real problem finding suitable lumber here in Sarasota. No
> cedar, cypress, pine, or redwood. I've called or visited every source I
> can find and no luck. I may have to venture up to Tampa to find anything.
> I did find a provider that can make me cypress planks, but their millimg
> costs seem excessive - - and that is probably because they have to start
> with the 2 by stuff to get 3/4" - Otherwise it comes 1/2" -
> 9/16" tops. Sigh.

It sounds to me like you are being needlessly picky about the wood you are looking for. Don't be. You will get a fine looking boat from almost ANY wood. If they build houses in Sarasota (and I think they do) then you will find lumber yards with wood for sale. Most of the ordinary white lumber is fine -- regardless of species. Some places even label their framing lumber as S-P-F, or spruce, pine, fir -- meaning they don't know exactly what the species is and for most purposes it is interchangeable, so they really don't care.

As long as trees have branches there will be lumber with knots. And it will be plentiful. Trying to find long, clear wood can be frustrating as the shipping costs on it are high. A lumber yard that deals with professional carpenters might order it for you, though, if you have a large enough order. I like the look of the occasional knot, though. It makes the boat look like 'real wood, and not something artificial. It is a boat, not a dining room table.

Personally, I make 'clear' boards in long lengths from 8 and 10 foot long 1x8 red cedar boards sold for use as deck materials. (that is home 'deck', not deck of a ship). I rip the boards in half and get two pieces that are a little over 3.5 inches wide. Then I cut the 'top' of each board at an angle about 2 feet long. This is my scarf joint. After the boards are cut I glue the left-side top of one board to the right-side top from the same board, and I get a very nice match of grain and color. After the glue dries, from a single 10 foot board I get an 18 foot board that is long, narrow, and ready to cut into strips.

If you want longer boards to rip strips from, splice on another piece with the same kind of diagonal cut.

From an 8 foot 1 x 12 you could rip three pieces that are just over 3.5 inches wide, and these could be scarphed into a single 20 foot long board. A 10 foot 1x12 gives whopping 26 foot long material. (anyone building a triple?)

I don't make many long pieces like this as I don't need more than a few strips that go the full length of the boat -- about 5 to 9 are nice. The rest of the boat is filled in with shorter pieces. The long ones are easy to use when getting started, the shorter ones are easier to fit as the work progresses.

You mention milling costs. What are those? When you cut your own strips YOU are doing the milling operations, so you don't need to pay anything to someone else -- unless you are having them make the strips for you.

That old 'brittle' cedar could be just what you want. George Roberts suggests weighing the wood and buying the lightest pieces. If this has been sitting around drying for years it might have a very low moisture content and be very light. Dry wood could be very absorbent, though, and soak up a lot of resin, which would make the boat heavier. (the cure for that is to roll on a thin first coat of resin that soaks in and cures, sealing the wood, a day or more before applying the glass cloth.) The structural strength is in the glass fabric. Plenty of boats have been built with foam between the two layers of glass cloth, and I'd bet even old, brittle cedar is stronger than that foam. Only thing I'd worry about with brittle wood in splinters. Keep your tweezers handy.

Go get some wood and make a few strips. The $6 you pay for a 1 x 8 piece of pine (with knots or not) at a home center is a cheap educational tool.

Hope this helps.

Paul G. Jacobson

Messages In This Thread

Old cedar might be brittle ??
Spidey -- 1/31/2000, 12:11 am
Re: Old cedar might be brittle ??
Spidey -- 2/2/2000, 12:45 am
Re: Old cedar might be brittle ??
Hank -- 1/31/2000, 2:44 pm
Re: Old cedar might be brittle ??
Spidey -- 1/31/2000, 4:30 pm
Re: 2x wood
Dan Lindberg -- 2/1/2000, 1:35 pm
Re: Old cedar might be brittle ??
Paul G. Jacobson -- 1/31/2000, 7:17 pm
Re: Old cedar might be brittle ??
Spidey -- 1/31/2000, 10:26 pm
Re: Old cedar might be brittle ??
Paul G. Jacobson -- 2/1/2000, 3:35 am
Re: Old cedar might be brittle ??
Carl -- 1/31/2000, 5:06 pm
Re: Old cedar might be brittle ??
Spidey -- 1/31/2000, 6:24 pm
Re: Old cedar might be brittle ??
Ross Leidy -- 1/31/2000, 4:49 pm
Re: Old cedar might be brittle ??
Spidey -- 1/31/2000, 6:17 pm