Boat Building Forum

Find advice on all aspects of building your own kayak, canoe or any lightweight boats

Just a thought....
By:Pete Rudie
Date: 10/1/2001, 10:13 pm
In Response To: Re: native paddle & grip (Rob Macks)

On Zimmerly's website, mentioned in my original question, the drawing is shown in Adobe Acrobat's .pdf format. There is an enlargement tool available on the toolbar, and by using it the paddle cross sections can be blown up big enough to actually see. Still, the question seems to be unresolved. Also, what about the apparent offset of the plane of the blade from the plane of the loom? It seems to me that if the tip trailed the loom there would be less tendency to flutter. The center of effort would thus be ahead of the center of resistance. Also, if the ridge were on the power face, there would be a dihedral that would reduce flutter.

If the paddle were reversed, and the plane of the blade were a continuation of the edge of the loom nearest the paddler, it seems as though that would be dynamically unstable, with the center of resistance ahead of the center of effort. Do your paddles have any such planar offset? Or have you ever used one like that? Maybe the Aleuts had a subtlety that has not yet appeared in the repro native paddle inventory.

: If your meaning of “cross cut” is the protruding shoulders illustrated in
: David’s drawing, then yes, I include these in my interpretation of this
: paddle.

: There are more than a few puzzling features of this VERY SMALL drawing of the
: Aleut paddle on page 16 of David’s book. Actually there is a slightly
: larger version on page 73 of the earlier edition I own of David’s book
: “Qajaq.”

: If I examine the cross sections verses the overhead and profile views the
: question arises, is this intended to be an accurate scaled drawing? I
: think not. If you look at the section presented at the transition of the
: blade and loom, this section has both the width of the blade shoulders and
: depth of the loom shown, but a straight line drawn down following the
: drawings would not show the loom depth. Further confusion occurs with the
: next section at about 180mm. This section is thicker than the bottom blade
: profile allows. Furthermore, the line through the section indicating the
: blade edges rises up, above the level of the blade edges indicated in the
: other two sections provided.

: Is the loom cross section an oval or an egg shape? Close examination revels
: it is not an oval. Is it really meant to be and egg shape? If it is, I
: assume the desired natural comfortable placement in the hand would be with
: the large end of the egg in the palm with the knuckle wrapped around the
: small end of the egg shape. If in fact this is the true shape of this
: section it would also make the flat blade face the power face.

: On my first attempts at this paddle style I had the flat surface of the D
: aligned with the flat blade surface as indicated in the drawing. What I
: found was that the shoulders at the blade/loom transition really hit my
: fingers very hard which made me want to round the shoulders considerably
: for comfort. Again, with the surveyed drawing so small, it is hard to tell
: how sharp or rounded this feature is. I felt that I had to round the
: shoulders too much to make them comfortable. I thought that if they were
: sharper, the shoulders would create a natural drip edge for water running
: down the blades.

: What I did was to reverse the D so the round part was in the palm facing the
: flat blade surface. This solved a number of problems. First this position
: offsets the shoulders at the blade/loom transition so they no longer were
: in the way as I slid my hand out to the blades. This allowed me to make
: the shoulders sharper, so they do act as a drip edge. Also by reversing
: the D shape the blade edges start at the top of the loom (relative to
: Zimmerly’s drawings) and angle down, right through the middle section
: (which now works) as the blade edges run down to the blade tips. This
: feels very comfortable to use and works well with fairly sharp blade
: shoulders.

: Again, the drawings we’re looking at are so small 1/64” or less on the
: drawing equals almost 1/2” in full scale.

: Who knows what condition the native kayaks and paddles are in relative to
: when the were made. I don’t know how David surveyed this paddle. I assume
: he is very accurate. It would certainly be nice to see and handle the
: actual paddle.

: I use the native kayaks and paddle drawing as a source of inspiration. I
: don’t assume to know how they used them. I think in the end, the artifacts
: we are aware of represent a small sampling of the possible individual
: boats and paddles that may have been in use. Just as each of us make our
: own personal modifications to a design with every boat we build

: I’ve been using my interpretation of this Aleut design for the last six years
: and have been very happy with it.

: The bottom line is, "are you having fun?"

: All the best,

: Rob Macks
: Laughing Loon CC&K
: www.LaughingLoon.com

Messages In This Thread

A native paddle question
Pete Rudie -- 9/29/2001, 12:13 am
Re: A native paddle answer (long)
Ken Sutherland -- 9/29/2001, 3:07 am
Re: A native paddle question (short)
risto -- 9/29/2001, 8:07 am
Re: A native paddle question (short)
Rob Macks -- 9/29/2001, 11:25 am
native paddle & grip
risto -- 10/1/2001, 11:10 am
Re: native paddle & grip
Rob Macks -- 10/1/2001, 2:41 pm
Re: native paddle & grip
risto -- 10/2/2001, 1:14 pm
Just a thought....
Pete Rudie -- 10/1/2001, 10:13 pm
Re: Just a thought....
risto -- 10/2/2001, 1:33 pm
Re: Just a thought....
Rob Macks -- 10/2/2001, 9:32 am
Re: Experience & Authority? Front & Back? *Pic*
Mike Hanks -- 10/1/2001, 11:39 pm
The evidence, the case! You a trial lawyer? ;) *NM*
risto -- 10/2/2001, 1:35 pm
Re: The evidence, the case! You a trial lawyer? ;)
Pete Rudie -- 10/3/2001, 12:22 am
Thanks, Mike. Right on point. *NM*
Pete Rudie -- 10/2/2001, 10:24 am
Re: A native paddle question (short)
Roy Morford -- 9/29/2001, 1:24 pm
Re: A native paddle question (short)
daren neufeld -- 9/29/2001, 8:55 am