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Re: Where do you guys find these things?
By:Willy Dommen
Date: 3/1/1999, 12:00 pm
In Response To: Where do you guys find these things? (Paul Jacobson)

The answer to your first question, is you have to develop an eye for finding that fossil covered with dirt among a bunch of rocks. Be patient and when you least expect it, a nugget will show up. Second, you always have to, subconsciously, be looking. Enough of this philosophy mush.

I appreciate your effort you invested in the response. The kayak is very close to a southern Alaska design, relatively wide (26"), short (approx 15')and slight rocker. The kayak also has a very flat bottom. There are three rub strips (1 1/4" x 3/4") attached externally to the hull; 1) full length external keelson, and 2) and 3) a strip about 4 feet long along the waterline-centered.

The "tweeks" I intend to perfom is to attach the external keelson to the internal keelson prior to recovering with canvas to create a slight vee bottom, and not to replace the side strips. In the event excesive wear becomes a problem, I will not hesitate to attach bronze rub strips externally. I also intend to fair the longitudinals and provide a mounting reinforcement for a rudder if needed. The cockpit combing is an elongated "Vee" type. I was contemplating replacing it with a more traditional native style, but opting instead, to just add a lip for a spray skirt.

wd

> What I would do:

> 1) Fix the broken frame and measure the other frames -- or trace them --
> so you can reproduce them as needed.

> 2) Cover the existing boat with a new canvas skin and paint it. paddle the
> existing boat as is.

> 3) Take the drawings of the forms and tweek them, using my `improvements'
> to make a new set of forms from which I would build an entirely new boat
> as a second boat.

> Here is my thinking: The boat you found was basically a free gift. most of
> the hard work is done. Take advantage of that. do the least to fix it up,
> and enjoy it.

> If you want something different (tweeks) you are going to have a major
> rebuild process. The basic structure of a skin on frame is defined by the
> skeleton created by the frames and stringers that connect them.

> If you want to increase the length you'll need new, longer, stringers
> (longerons? chines? call them what you wish). If you want to increase the
> width you'll need to make new wider frames from scratch -- and for that it
> helps to have the tracings of the current ones.

> If you want to make the boat narrower you will have to remove at least the
> center frames, trim something from them and reassemble. Since a narrower
> boat will sink lower in order to displace the same amount of water you may
> need to increase the side height at the same time. If you screw up you'll
> want to have the original design, or even the original frame, so you can
> replace things and restore performance to original specs. If you replace
> ONLY the center frames, the bow and stern may appear to be a bit wide in
> comparison. Probably this would be most noticable in the bow because you
> are looking at that all the time while you paddle.

> In the long run, most `tweeks' will involve major rebuilds, or monr
> changes to most of the components -- so you might as well build from
> scratch and make sure things fit as desired. In the meantime, while you
> build your `dream boat' you'll have a functional craft to paddle and
> enjoy.

> If you are not planning to make such major changes, I'd suggest making
> creature-comfort changes to the cockpit a first priority: A comfortable
> new seat, foot rests/pegs/peddles, etc. If you are thinking of adding a
> rudder, do it after you have paddled the boat a while without one.

> If you are even considering a skeg, you might want to plan for one before
> you cover the frame. If I was DEFINITELY going to put on a skeg I'd trace
> the outline of the keel strip before putting on the skin, and cut a skeg
> to that shape (probably from 3/4 inch thick stock -- nominal 1 in. stock)
> Then I would put cloth on the hull and paint it with two coats of paint.
> I'd then attach the skeg with screws driven into it from inside the hull.
> When I attached the skeg I would lay a fresh coat of paint along the area
> where the skeg fit in order to bed it in something that would provide some
> resistance to water penetration. After that I would attach and paint the
> deck.

> If I was only CONTEMPLATING attaching a skeg, before I put on the skin I
> would trace the curve of the keel strip on wood or cardboard and save it
> for future reference. I would also add a piece on the inside of the boat
> in roughly the area where a skeg might be attached. This piece would be
> thick enough (maybe an inch or an inch and a half) to hold any screws that
> I might use (driven from the outside) when I put on that possible skeg. If
> I never put on a skeg, the added weight of such a strip of wood is
> negligible, and its presence merely strengthens that one strip.

> If I was giving any thought to attaching a rudder I might want to
> epoxy/screw/nail/bolt(?) some pieces of wood to the existing skeleton to
> provide anchors for what ever fastening devices I might use for attaching
> a potential rudder. These mounting strips would be under the deck skin and
> not seen. If you need to use them, fine, they are there. If not, fine, it
> is not a great amount of effort to install them and they add little
> weight.

> Just my two cents. Hope it makes sense to you.

> Paul Jacobson

> By the way: Where the heck do you guys live where they throw kayak frames
> on junk heaps and discard them in alleys? I sure wish I had neighbors like
> that. Almost makes me think about putting up an ad on the local grocery
> store's community bulletin board offering to cart away any old boats that
> people might not want cluttering their garages or yards. Hmm, maybe that
> would work for somebody. Just an idea. pj

Messages In This Thread

Keep it original or tweek it
Willy Dommen -- 2/26/1999, 11:55 am
Where do you guys find these things?
Paul Jacobson -- 2/28/1999, 1:57 am
Re: Where do you guys find these things?
Willy Dommen -- 3/1/1999, 12:00 pm
Re: Keep it original or tweek it
Don Beale -- 2/26/1999, 1:15 pm
Re: Keep it original or tweek it
Shawn Baker -- 2/26/1999, 1:12 pm