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Sea Kayaks Techniques Bulletin Board
You simply don't understand the dangers, John
Posted By: Brian Nystrom In Response To: Re: Here's the coast guard press release (John Monroe)
Date: Friday, 4 March 2005, at 8:35 a.m.
: (It won’t be long Brian until I can test this out. I have been waiting
: anxiously all winter.): (The different animal that has outside sponsors becomes the same animal when
: the kayak/canoe fills with water. The very same reaction takes place
: except the inside sponsors do not have as much leverage because they are
: closer together but it will still work. Think of it as an auto tire tube
: you are setting in, in the water. The tube becomes your sponsors and
: stabilize you even though they are very narrow in width. Now, instead of
: setting in an intertube you are setting in a flooded boat. The same forces
: are exactly the same.)Yes, the forces are the same, but you have a shorter lever arm AND much less floatation. PLUS, you still haven't demonstrated that your original wide boat with lots of floatation at the gunwales will work in anything but flat water. I will bet you that it will be completely uncontrollable in rough water.
The inner tube analogy is misleading at best. A inner tube is nearly 100% sponson, your boat floatation is more like 5%.
: If it works and saves lives, why is it a bad idea?
You have yet to prove that it even works, let alone saves lives! You're making some pretty huge assumptions about an unproven idea.
: I had many explain why
: this concept wouldn’t work on my 26-inch wide kayak when I was building
: it. When it did work, the silence was deafening, and the new reason it
: works they said was because it was wider then normal. This has all been
: played out before and ended with positive results and I have no reason to
: believe it will any different this time. But I will be running the test to
: share with you and if it doesn’t work as planned I will tell you.Your testing was only on flat water, where the dangers of a flooded boat are not evident. It's also the least likely place that you'll need to self rescue. I can do cowboy re-entries on flat water, but does that mean that they'd be useful under real conditions? Not a chance! Your testing so far really proves nothing useful and has apparently lulled you into a false sense of security.
A flooded boat in rough water is at the mercy of the waves and is virtually uncontrollable. Basically, you're riding in an unstable missle that weighs several hundred pounds and is sitting so deeply in the water that you cannot steer it. The waves toss you around like a toy and there's nothing you can do about it. If you happen to get tossed onshore or against something, the impact is very severe and the kayak can crush you. You have never experienced conditions like this, so it's understandable that you wouldn't know what it's like. Many of us here have real experience in such situations and have told you how dangerous it is. Why won't you listen?
: It was limited testing and that is the reason for the extensive testing this
: spring and summer. The man that drowned in the pond near me was in dead
: flat water. A dangerous death trap uncontrollable canoe is what most
: likely was the cause of his death.Hmmm, I wonder if he was wearing a PFD? I'll bet he wasn't. Do you think that might have been a bit more of a factor in his demise?
Besides, I never said that no one ever dies or needs to self rescue in flat water, but it's much more likely in rough water.
: Brian what’s wrong with having proven rescue skill and having back up inside
: side floatation. More options are better then fewer ones. If you carefully
: read Sea-Kayaker/Deep Trouble you will find that many of the deaths and
: near deaths were kayakers with good kayaking skills where the float/paddle
: rescue wasn’t working because of high winds/waves, and they found
: themselves unable to stay in their unstable kayaks.Correct, but you're intentionally building boats with inadequate floatation and flooding them in order to self rescue. You're intentionally putting yourself in the same position as the people who's stories your refer to, under the misguided assumption that this is some form of "rescue strategy".
: Many people do not have the training or realize the dangers of
: kayaking/canoeing and are not trained, or have the proper equipment with
: them to be safe. The unfortunate youngsters that died off the Florida
: coast are axample as far as we know. That's the reason I had to get my 2
: cents in.Correct, which is why they should have every advantage. Inadequate floatation and a flooded boat is a recipe for disaster, yet that's what you're advocating.
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