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Sea Kayaks Techniques Bulletin Board

I admit it, Yes.

Posted By: Matt Brammer
Date: Tuesday, 1 March 2005, at 8:24 p.m.

In Response To: rush to judgement? (rick stoehrer)

I posted an earlier message stating what I saw as the most glaring errors based on information available. And I'll freely admit that I was letting emotions enter into my thinking. Judging? Yes. Judging the people? Not intended, I don't know 'em. Judging their actions? Yes. There was much that could have been easily done to prevent this tragedy.
We don't know the timeline and we don't know what they were doing from the time the boys were known to be missing and the time the leader and one of the students went out at 9pm looking for the boys. Until we know that, I agree that we cannot get a complete picture of what went wrong. We don't know why they were still on the water when the storm hit near sunset (according to the CG press release). But there are things we can infer by the information that was provided.
The leader by all reports was a great teacher that the kids liked and respected. He was well experienced in outdoor activities and had led at least one similar kayak trip to Florida last year without incident according to a story in the Rome, GA newspaper. But does that mean he was lucky or well prepared? In this case, to me, it looks like the former. A canoe has no business being on coastal waters, especially in the hands of inexperienced paddlers. The lack of any means to summon help is something that is inexplicable to me when talking about a professional guide (if you take people's money, you're a professional and should do business as one).
One last thing we can infer is that these are good people who are devastated by what happened. Their lives will never be the same from here on.

So what can WE learn from this. Make sure the people you paddle with, or especially those you send your kids with, are prepared for the worst expected conditions, have contingency plans and means to summon help quickly when things go south. Make sure you and your kids are dressed for immersion and have proper equipment for the trip, including all essentials. Make sure the leaders and your kids have reliable rescue techniques. Don't simply accept an accident free track record. (If a guy runs red lights 20 times in a row without an accident, he has an accident free track record).

: the situation is tragic but without knowing the circumstances and a timeline
: perhaps you are rushing to judgement? you weren't there and the picture is
: maybe not complete?

: you're right though, judgement is more important than gear but keep in mind
: that the only thing we seem to know is some of the gear and not any of the
: judgement and certainly not the actual circumstances.

: it is a shame and was probably avoidable but to able to judge without all the
: salient facts and circumstances....you folks are more perceptive than me.

Messages In This Thread

Another tragedy of poor preparation?
Gary -- Monday, 28 February 2005, at 3:22 p.m.
Inexcusable...and with a motorized boat available?
Robert N Pruden -- Monday, 28 February 2005, at 4:10 p.m.
what were the circumstances?
rick stoehrer -- Monday, 28 February 2005, at 10:14 p.m.
Re: what were the circumstances?
Jay Doorly -- Tuesday, 1 March 2005, at 12:18 a.m.
Re: Another tragedy of poor preparation?
Davis -- Tuesday, 1 March 2005, at 2:48 a.m.
Re: Another tragedy of poor preparation?
Mike Scarborough -- Tuesday, 1 March 2005, at 8:02 a.m.
rush to judgement?
rick stoehrer -- Tuesday, 1 March 2005, at 11:24 a.m.
Re: rush to judgement?
shawn baker -- Tuesday, 1 March 2005, at 5:03 p.m.
Re: rush to judgement?
Rehd -- Wednesday, 2 March 2005, at 9:18 a.m.
I admit it, Yes.
Matt Brammer -- Tuesday, 1 March 2005, at 8:24 p.m.
Yes and no
Brian Nystrom -- Wednesday, 2 March 2005, at 7:43 a.m.
Re: Another tragedy of poor preparation?
William N -- Tuesday, 1 March 2005, at 12:08 p.m.
Re: Another tragedy of poor preparation?
Kris Buttermore -- Tuesday, 1 March 2005, at 11:17 a.m.
Poor Preparation and Negligence
Matt Brammer -- Tuesday, 1 March 2005, at 2:01 p.m.
Re: Poor Preparation and Negligence
Ong Yong Hui -- Wednesday, 2 March 2005, at 1:32 a.m.
Re: Poor Preparation and Negligence
Don Flowers -- Wednesday, 2 March 2005, at 3:42 p.m.
Re: Poor Preparation and Negligence *LINK*
Karen Rutherford -- Thursday, 21 August 2008, at 3:42 p.m.
Message to the more inexperienced paddlers here
Robert N Pruden -- Tuesday, 1 March 2005, at 10:45 p.m.
There is NO excuse...
Brian Nystrom -- Wednesday, 2 March 2005, at 7:54 a.m.
Nature bats last... *NM*
M. Hamilton -- Saturday, 5 March 2005, at 10:59 p.m.
Here's the coast guard press release *LINK*
John D. -- Tuesday, 1 March 2005, at 1:51 p.m.
Re: Here's the coast guard press release
Alex M -- Wednesday, 2 March 2005, at 2:33 a.m.
Another Lemon
Davis -- Wednesday, 2 March 2005, at 3:44 a.m.
Re: Another Lemon
Robert N Pruden -- Wednesday, 2 March 2005, at 5:47 a.m.
Re: Another Lemon
Davis -- Wednesday, 2 March 2005, at 10:39 p.m.
Well done, Davis.
Robert N Pruden -- Thursday, 3 March 2005, at 3:18 a.m.
Re: Well done, Davis.
Davis -- Thursday, 3 March 2005, at 3:42 a.m.
Re: Well done, Davis.
Robert N Pruden -- Thursday, 3 March 2005, at 4:28 a.m.
Following up
Pamela -- Friday, 4 March 2005, at 8:09 a.m.
Re: Here's the coast guard press release *Pic*
John Monroe -- Thursday, 3 March 2005, at 5:16 a.m.
Re: Here's the coast guard press release
Brian Nystrom -- Thursday, 3 March 2005, at 6:57 a.m.
Re: Here's the coast guard press release
John Monroe -- Friday, 4 March 2005, at 3:22 a.m.
You simply don't understand the dangers, John
Brian Nystrom -- Friday, 4 March 2005, at 8:35 a.m.
Re: You simply don't understand the dangers, John
John Monroe -- Saturday, 5 March 2005, at 4:16 a.m.
Re: You simply don't understand the dangers, John
Brian Nystrom -- Saturday, 5 March 2005, at 8:15 a.m.
Bulkheads
Robert N Pruden -- Thursday, 3 March 2005, at 9:28 p.m.
Re: Bulkheads *Pic*
John Monroe -- Friday, 4 March 2005, at 3:56 a.m.
Re: Bulkheads
shawn baker -- Friday, 4 March 2005, at 10:20 a.m.
Re: Bulkheads
Matt Brammer -- Friday, 4 March 2005, at 1:13 p.m.
Re: Here's the coast guard press release
Michael Shugg -- Tuesday, 13 June 2006, at 8:13 p.m.
Re: Here's the coast guard press release
Ian -- Sunday, 6 March 2005, at 4:47 a.m.
Re: Here's the coast guard press release
Brian Nystrom -- Monday, 7 March 2005, at 6:54 a.m.
Re: Here's the coast guard press release
Ian -- Tuesday, 8 March 2005, at 3:55 a.m.
Re: Here's the coast guard press release
FrankP -- Tuesday, 8 March 2005, at 10:50 a.m.
Bad weather comes with clouds attached to it ...
Pamela -- Wednesday, 2 March 2005, at 7:05 a.m.
Re: Bad weather comes with clouds attached to it .
Robert N Pruden -- Wednesday, 2 March 2005, at 7:26 a.m.
Re: Bad weather comes with clouds attached to it .
PatrickC -- Wednesday, 2 March 2005, at 10:25 a.m.
Gulf Information...
Robert N Pruden -- Wednesday, 2 March 2005, at 9:42 p.m.
Re: Gulf Information...
PatrickC -- Wednesday, 2 March 2005, at 11:09 p.m.
Re: Gulf Information...
Robert N Pruden -- Thursday, 3 March 2005, at 3:38 a.m.
Re: Gulf Information...
FrankP -- Monday, 7 March 2005, at 7:45 a.m.
Re: Gulf Information...
Robert N Pruden -- Monday, 7 March 2005, at 9:52 a.m.
Re: Gulf Information...
FrankP -- Monday, 7 March 2005, at 4:19 p.m.
Coaching Fastpitch Ball
Robert N Pruden -- Monday, 7 March 2005, at 5:45 p.m.
Re: Bad weather comes with clouds attached to it .
Karl -- Thursday, 3 March 2005, at 12:28 p.m.
Some more info *LINK*
Matt Brammer -- Sunday, 6 March 2005, at 1:10 a.m.
Stop being so critical! *NM*
Michelle -- Tuesday, 6 June 2006, at 1:17 p.m.
Re: Stop being so critical!
Michelle -- Tuesday, 6 June 2006, at 1:35 p.m.
You're a bit late to the party, Michelle
Brian Nystrom -- Thursday, 8 June 2006, at 1:46 a.m.
Re: Stop being so critical!
rick -- Friday, 9 June 2006, at 1:38 p.m.
Re: Stop being so critical!
frankP -- Friday, 16 June 2006, at 3:23 p.m.
Re: Another tragedy of poor preparation?
Karen Rutherford -- Thursday, 21 August 2008, at 3:51 p.m.

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