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Sea Kayaks Techniques Bulletin Board

Re: Unsafe perimeter lines

Posted By: Brian Nystrom
Date: Tuesday, 5 March 2002, at 11:12 a.m.

In Response To: Re: Unsafe perimeter lines (Tim Mattson)

: Note: I distinguish between perimeter lines and deck bungeies. I have those
: to hold my spare paddle and to hold a chart. By perimeter line, I refer
: specifically to the line going around the permiter of the deck.

: Most of the uses given for a permieter line would be covered by my deck
: bungies. Yes, I concede that it would be easier for a swimmer to grab a
: perimeter line -- but if I were towing a swimmer for any distance, I'd
: want them up on my deck to they wouldn't get so cold. If that wouldn't
: work, they can grab my deck bungie without too much extra effort.

There are three problems with bungees:

1) They are weak. IMHO bungee cord should NEVER be used as a structural part of any rescue system and I consider decklines as part of a rescue system. Not only is it not strong to begin with, but it weakens quickly with age. Addtionally, bungee does not hold knots nearly as well as rope/cord lines. Bungees are simply not reliable in a rescue situation.

2) Unless you do something to elevate them above the deck or provide pull tabs, bungees are VERY difficult to grab, especially with gloves on or with cold, wet hands. They are slippery and snap back flush to the deck when they slip out of your grasp. They are even worse than flush rope/cord lines in this regard.

3) The very characteristic that makes bungee useful for retaining items on deck - it's stretchiness - makes it undesirable when you need to get a firm hold on a boat. I wouldn't use it as tie-downs to hold my boat on my car and I won't use it to hold my (or someone else's) body to a boat.

: In terms of stabilizing a boat, I stabilize boats by leaning on the boat and
: grabing something solid like the coaming. I wouldn't recommend doing so by
: grabing a flexible permiter line. I specifically teach students to leave
: the perimeter lines alone during a T-rescue since I'm trying to get them
: to make more solid contact with the rescuee's kayak.

That's certainly the best method, but I've found that it can be problematic when dealing with boats with small cockpits. In that case, I prefer to grab the deck lines in front of the cockpit, in order to avoid having my fingers smashed or getting kicked in the face by a flailing victim. Since I and many of the people I paddle with are into the Greenland thing and/or own typical British "ocean" boats, this is a common occurance.

: As for towing, I wouldn't use a perimeter line to attach to a boat for
: towing. I'd connect to a more solid connection --- the bow loop (or
: whatever the carry handle near the bow is called).

I agree with Jed on this one. Bow loops get used a lot and most people don't seem to replace them until they fail. I've seen a lot of them that are so frayed that I wouldn't lift the boat with them, let alone trust them in a rescue situation. If nothing else, the presence of deck lines provides an optional point of attachment. If they're not there, you have no option.

: As I said before, I don't see enough benefit for perimeter lines to bother
: adding them. I've never used the lines on my khatsalano and I've never
: felt the need for the lines on my other boats.

As an experiment, go for a swim in moderate wind/wave conditions and see how effectively you can grasp your boat in the area where there are no lines. If your boat were blowing away from you and you could only reach one of these areas, what would you do? I realize that you may never be in this situation (at least I hope not), but I think you see the point. A wet boat is not an easy thing to latch onto without a line that you can easily wrap your fingers around.

Messages In This Thread

Unsafe perimeter lines
Ben Staley -- Monday, 4 March 2002, at 12:50 p.m.
Re: Thanks for the good beta, Ben *NM*
Shawn Baker -- Monday, 4 March 2002, at 1:13 p.m.
Re: Unsafe perimeter lines
Tim Mattson -- Monday, 4 March 2002, at 2:03 p.m.
Re: Unsafe perimeter lines
dan -- Monday, 4 March 2002, at 3:07 p.m.
Re: Unsafe perimeter lines
Jed -- Monday, 4 March 2002, at 3:09 p.m.
Re: Unsafe perimeter lines
LeeG -- Monday, 4 March 2002, at 4:28 p.m.
Re: Unsafe perimeter lines
Tim Mattson -- Monday, 4 March 2002, at 6:16 p.m.
Re: Unsafe perimeter lines
Jed -- Monday, 4 March 2002, at 7:04 p.m.
Re: Unsafe perimeter lines
Shawn Baker -- Monday, 4 March 2002, at 10:34 p.m.
Re: Unsafe perimeter lines
LeeG -- Monday, 4 March 2002, at 10:42 p.m.
Re: Unsafe perimeter lines
Brian Nystrom -- Tuesday, 5 March 2002, at 11:12 a.m.
Safer rigging
Brianne Corbett -- Tuesday, 5 March 2002, at 6:13 p.m.
Re: Safer rigging
Brian Nystrom -- Tuesday, 5 March 2002, at 6:25 p.m.
Question for the Day
Shawn Baker -- Tuesday, 5 March 2002, at 7:06 p.m.
Re: Question for the Day
Brianne Corbett -- Tuesday, 5 March 2002, at 9:12 p.m.
Re: Question for the Day
Shawn Baker -- Wednesday, 6 March 2002, at 10:34 a.m.
Re: Question for the Day
Brian Nystrom -- Wednesday, 6 March 2002, at 1:10 p.m.
Re: Question for the Day
LeeG -- Thursday, 7 March 2002, at 7:15 a.m.
Re: Question for the Day
Brian Nystrom -- Thursday, 7 March 2002, at 12:48 p.m.
Re: Question for the Day
LeeG -- Thursday, 7 March 2002, at 4:42 p.m.
Re: Question for the Day
Brian Nystrom -- Wednesday, 6 March 2002, at 1:08 p.m.
Deck line materials
Brian Nystrom -- Wednesday, 6 March 2002, at 1:02 p.m.
Re: Deck line materials
Brianne Corbett -- Friday, 8 March 2002, at 7:50 a.m.
Re: Deck line materials
Brian Nystrom -- Friday, 8 March 2002, at 3:08 p.m.
I have one boat with and one without...
Craig Mackinnon -- Tuesday, 5 March 2002, at 9:00 a.m.
Make that "taut" perimeter deck lines...
Craig Mackinnon -- Tuesday, 5 March 2002, at 9:16 a.m.
Re:perimeter lines; rethinking rigging
Ben Staley -- Tuesday, 5 March 2002, at 10:48 a.m.
Does the boat have sheer clamps?
Brian Nystrom -- Tuesday, 5 March 2002, at 11:31 a.m.
Re: Does the boat have sheer clamps? *Pic*
Ben Staley -- Tuesday, 5 March 2002, at 12:02 p.m.
deck lines
risto -- Tuesday, 5 March 2002, at 12:41 p.m.
Re: deck lines
Brian Nystrom -- Tuesday, 5 March 2002, at 5:23 p.m.
Re: deck lines
risto -- Thursday, 7 March 2002, at 5:02 a.m.
In defense of a good "Cat FIght"
Jed -- Thursday, 7 March 2002, at 7:32 a.m.
Fanning the flames, eh Jed?
Brian Nystrom -- Thursday, 7 March 2002, at 12:35 p.m.
OOPS!!! I didn't realize this was tongue in cheek
Brian Nystrom -- Thursday, 7 March 2002, at 2:05 p.m.
Re: deck lines
Brian Nystrom -- Thursday, 7 March 2002, at 7:37 a.m.
Re: deck lines
risto -- Thursday, 7 March 2002, at 12:31 p.m.
Re:perimeter lines: recessed rigging
Shawn Baker -- Tuesday, 5 March 2002, at 2:01 p.m.
Re:perimeter lines: recessed rigging
Jed -- Tuesday, 5 March 2002, at 2:32 p.m.
A suggestion
Brian Nystrom -- Monday, 4 March 2002, at 5:52 p.m.
Unsafe perimeter lines
dan -- Monday, 4 March 2002, at 7:35 p.m.
YOU are the man..........!!!!
Bruce S. -- Tuesday, 5 March 2002, at 1:11 a.m.
Yeah, way to stay with it...
Craig Mackinnon -- Tuesday, 5 March 2002, at 8:47 a.m.

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