Sea Kayaks Techniques Bulletin Board

Not entirely

Posted By: Brian Nystrom
Date: Tuesday, 21 November 2000, at 3:02 p.m.

In Response To: Re: You Are Alone Out There! (Ian Johnston)

: Hi Fred,

: The rescues you have mentioned here all have major weaknesses;

: Paddle float rescues- You have to pump out the boat and if you couldn't stay
: upright with an empty kayak how will you do this with one full of water
: while you try to pump it out with both hands? Paddle float rescues are
: very hard in really rough conditions.

While I see your point, I don't think the situation is quite so dire. A paddle float rescue with the paddle attached to the deck rigging (as opposed to being hand held), it will continue to stabilize the kayak during pumping as long as the paddler keeps some weight on it.

: Buddy rescues- FORGET IT! In severe conditions do you really expect to bring
: two kayaks together with one person in the water? What happens when 2, 300
: lb.+ kayaks collide? What happens when a hull is holed? What happens when
: the person in the water is between the two kayaks? What happens when the
: conditions make it impossible for your partner to turn around? What
: happens when your partner is out to save his own skin while you are
: waiting for an assist?

I have done assisted rescues, as both the rescuer and the victim in rough (though not extreme) conditions. It works VERY well. Two kayaks rafted together are much more stable than a single boat. It makes reentry very fast and relatively easy. Reattaching the skirt and pumping out can be accomplished sucessfully and expeditiously, though the latter requires considerable effort.

I have never seen conditions in which I could not turn my boat, and the people I paddle with are typically better paddlers than I am, so I don't even consider that a factor. I also NEVER paddle alone in rough water.

: Keeping your body out of the water- Good idea but it only prolongs the
: inevitable.

Isn't that the point, if there is no other alternative? If you lose your boat and you're on your own, exposure clothing and signalling devices are the only things that will save you. Anything you can do to delay or prevent hypothermia increases your chances of survival.

: Sponsons- don't work in severe conditions as has been explained and
: demonstrated here and on other bulletin boards.

Agreed.

: When you are out on the water in severe conditions always prepare with the
: knowledge that you are ALONE when things go bad.

I would change that statement to read "always prepare as if you were going to be alone". In a worst case scenario, it may be every paddler for themselves.

: A reliable roll is the primary defense because it eliminates all the
: weaknesses of the other self rescues. All the other rescues were meant as : backups to the roll.

I agree. However, the point is to have as many self and assisted rescue techniques in your arsenal as possible. No single technique, including rolling, will work under all conditions. I have been in the position where my normally reliable roll has deserted me (for various reasons) and have had to wet exit. Fortunately, I've practiced enough different self rescues and assisted rescues that I was never in any real danger. The last time this happened I was back in the boat within two minutes and had it pumped out in another two or so. Five minutes after the capsize, we were paddling on and joking about it. Getting back to paddling, whether to continue a trip or to head for sheltered water, is the bottom line. Whatever method works is the best method.

Messages In This Thread

Less is More When Rolling.
Ian Johnston -- Monday, 13 November 2000, at 8:19 p.m.

wel,.... more or less.....
Jed -- Monday, 13 November 2000, at 9:43 p.m.

What Jed said
Wayne Smith -- Tuesday, 14 November 2000, at 8:41 a.m.

Re: What Jed said
M. Hamilton -- Tuesday, 14 November 2000, at 3:12 p.m.

Re: What Jed said
Ian Johnston -- Tuesday, 14 November 2000, at 10:15 p.m.

Re: What Jed said
M. Hamilton -- Wednesday, 15 November 2000, at 12:09 a.m.

Re: Rolling Unnecessary!
Ian Johnston -- Wednesday, 15 November 2000, at 1:43 a.m.

Re: Rolling Unnecessary!
Brian Nystrom -- Wednesday, 15 November 2000, at 12:09 p.m.

Re: Rolling Unnecessary!
Ian Johnston -- Thursday, 16 November 2000, at 3:43 a.m.

Re: Rolling Unnecessary!
Brian Nystrom -- Thursday, 16 November 2000, at 12:38 p.m.

Re: Rolling Unnecessary!
Robert Woodard -- Friday, 17 November 2000, at 7:02 a.m.

Re: Rolling Unnecessary!
Brian Nystrom -- Friday, 17 November 2000, at 2:15 p.m.

Re: Rolling Unnecessary!
Rod Estvan -- Saturday, 18 November 2000, at 9:14 a.m.

Re: Uneducated!
Ian Johnston -- Saturday, 18 November 2000, at 8:06 p.m.

Re: Uneducated!
mike M -- Sunday, 19 November 2000, at 12:43 p.m.

There is room on the sea for all of us.
Jed -- Sunday, 19 November 2000, at 1:50 p.m.

Re: There is room on the sea for all of us.
mike M -- Sunday, 19 November 2000, at 6:29 p.m.

Re: You Already Have It!
Ian Johnston -- Sunday, 19 November 2000, at 6:56 p.m.

Re: You Already Have It!
M. Hamilton -- Sunday, 19 November 2000, at 9:37 p.m.

Re: There is room on the sea for all of us.
FBC -- Monday, 20 November 2000, at 8:25 p.m.

Re: There is room on the sea for all of us.
M. Hamilton -- Tuesday, 21 November 2000, at 1:34 a.m.

Re: There is room on the sea for all of us.
FBC -- Wednesday, 22 November 2000, at 6:28 p.m.

Re: You Are Alone Out There!
Ian Johnston -- Tuesday, 21 November 2000, at 2:04 a.m.

Not entirely
Brian Nystrom -- Tuesday, 21 November 2000, at 3:02 p.m.

Re: You Are Alone Out There!
Robert Woodard -- Wednesday, 22 November 2000, at 7:10 a.m.

Re: You Are Alone Out There!
Robert Woodard -- Wednesday, 22 November 2000, at 2:02 p.m.

Re: You Are Alone Out There!
FBC -- Wednesday, 22 November 2000, at 7:37 p.m.

Beliefs
Carl Tjerandsen -- Sunday, 19 November 2000, at 8:02 p.m.

Re: Beliefs
mike M -- Sunday, 19 November 2000, at 10:10 p.m.

Re: Beliefs
M. Hamilton -- Monday, 20 November 2000, at 10:42 a.m.

Re: Uneducated!
BERT -- Monday, 20 November 2000, at 7:54 a.m.

Re: What Jed said
Wayne Smith -- Wednesday, 15 November 2000, at 6:35 a.m.

Which roll ?
risto lappalainen -- Wednesday, 15 November 2000, at 8:55 a.m.

Re: Which roll ?
Greg Stamer -- Wednesday, 15 November 2000, at 10:20 a.m.

The "best roll?? . . .depends on the situation
Jed -- Wednesday, 15 November 2000, at 11:53 a.m.

Re: Uh oh--here we go again!!
Shawn Baker -- Wednesday, 15 November 2000, at 3:43 p.m.

thanks
risto -- Thursday, 16 November 2000, at 10:31 a.m.

Karate - defense
mike allen ---> -- Wednesday, 15 November 2000, at 2:17 p.m.

Re: Karate - defense
M. Hamilton -- Wednesday, 15 November 2000, at 9:51 p.m.

Re: Karate - defense
Shawn Baker -- Thursday, 16 November 2000, at 1:37 p.m.

Inside joke,...please excuse
Jed -- Thursday, 16 November 2000, at 5:43 p.m.

Re: Inside joke...nothing more
Shawn Baker -- Thursday, 16 November 2000, at 6:02 p.m.

Re: Inside joke...nothing more
M. Hamilton -- Thursday, 16 November 2000, at 7:06 p.m.

Re: Typing under the influence of microbrews
Shawn Baker -- Friday, 17 November 2000, at 1:32 p.m.

Re: Inside joke...nothing more
FBC -- Saturday, 18 November 2000, at 12:07 a.m.

Re: Karate - defense
Ian Johnston -- Thursday, 16 November 2000, at 3:32 a.m.

I misunderstood you point
mike allen ---> -- Thursday, 16 November 2000, at 12:53 p.m.

Re: Less is More When Rolling.
Don Beale -- Thursday, 16 November 2000, at 3:04 p.m.

Sea Kayaks Techniques Bulletin Board is maintained by Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks with WebBBS 5.12.