Sea Kayaks Techniques Bulletin Board

Re: Inside joke...nothing more

Posted By: Shawn Baker
Date: Thursday, 16 November 2000, at 6:02 p.m.

In Response To: Inside joke,...please excuse (Jed)

: Sorry all,

: I should have explained. Shawn and I had a spirited discussion about a year
: ago. My stance was that rolling should be an every trip thing, the more
: the better and Shawn quoted Derek's "To need to roll is a measure of
: failure". A point that I agree with for the most part now.

It really was a semantics debate. To want to roll is definitely not a measure of failure. I was also arguing that needing to roll was also potentially a sign that one had failed in navigation, weather forecasting, or knowing one's own abilities, and that needing to roll was possibly a symptom of some other failure.

To go out and push one's limits in fully expected conditions (surf, tidal rapids, or any conditions that are at the edge of your abilities, but not outside your ability to keep safe) is not really a measure of failure.

I was also seeing "failure" in shades of gray, while Jed saw it more black and white.

It was a rather interesting discussion, but it began to seriously "border on the philosophical", and had little bearing on real world paddling safety. We had similar thoughts, but radically different ways of expressing and personally understanding them.

Safe paddling all,
Shawn

: But the
: one issue that I used to try and break Shawn's agruement was the rolling
: in surf and rolling because you have pushed your limits. Being a
: reasonable man, Shawn finally saw that we were argueing over our
: definition of "failure".

: It boiled down to this: If you capsize due to anything short of fierce winds
: or waves then you have failed to meet the conditions with your bracing
: skills. But those people that go out in rough conditions are pushing their
: limits anyway so a capsize is no big deal, as long as they roll back up.
: In this case the capsize is not really a failure but rather goes with the
: territory.

: Hopefully, I'm not dragging this discussion back into the forefront. I just
: wanted to explain Shawn's and my little joust. No harm, no foul.

: Take care all,
: Jed

Messages In This Thread

Less is More When Rolling.
Ian Johnston -- Monday, 13 November 2000, at 8:19 p.m.

wel,.... more or less.....
Jed -- Monday, 13 November 2000, at 9:43 p.m.

What Jed said
Wayne Smith -- Tuesday, 14 November 2000, at 8:41 a.m.

Re: What Jed said
M. Hamilton -- Tuesday, 14 November 2000, at 3:12 p.m.

Re: What Jed said
Ian Johnston -- Tuesday, 14 November 2000, at 10:15 p.m.

Re: What Jed said
M. Hamilton -- Wednesday, 15 November 2000, at 12:09 a.m.

Re: Rolling Unnecessary!
Ian Johnston -- Wednesday, 15 November 2000, at 1:43 a.m.

Re: Rolling Unnecessary!
Brian Nystrom -- Wednesday, 15 November 2000, at 12:09 p.m.

Re: Rolling Unnecessary!
Ian Johnston -- Thursday, 16 November 2000, at 3:43 a.m.

Re: Rolling Unnecessary!
Brian Nystrom -- Thursday, 16 November 2000, at 12:38 p.m.

Re: Rolling Unnecessary!
Robert Woodard -- Friday, 17 November 2000, at 7:02 a.m.

Re: Rolling Unnecessary!
Brian Nystrom -- Friday, 17 November 2000, at 2:15 p.m.

Re: Rolling Unnecessary!
Rod Estvan -- Saturday, 18 November 2000, at 9:14 a.m.

Re: Uneducated!
Ian Johnston -- Saturday, 18 November 2000, at 8:06 p.m.

Re: Uneducated!
mike M -- Sunday, 19 November 2000, at 12:43 p.m.

There is room on the sea for all of us.
Jed -- Sunday, 19 November 2000, at 1:50 p.m.

Re: There is room on the sea for all of us.
mike M -- Sunday, 19 November 2000, at 6:29 p.m.

Re: You Already Have It!
Ian Johnston -- Sunday, 19 November 2000, at 6:56 p.m.

Re: You Already Have It!
M. Hamilton -- Sunday, 19 November 2000, at 9:37 p.m.

Re: There is room on the sea for all of us.
FBC -- Monday, 20 November 2000, at 8:25 p.m.

Re: There is room on the sea for all of us.
M. Hamilton -- Tuesday, 21 November 2000, at 1:34 a.m.

Re: There is room on the sea for all of us.
FBC -- Wednesday, 22 November 2000, at 6:28 p.m.

Re: You Are Alone Out There!
Ian Johnston -- Tuesday, 21 November 2000, at 2:04 a.m.

Not entirely
Brian Nystrom -- Tuesday, 21 November 2000, at 3:02 p.m.

Re: You Are Alone Out There!
Robert Woodard -- Wednesday, 22 November 2000, at 7:10 a.m.

Re: You Are Alone Out There!
Robert Woodard -- Wednesday, 22 November 2000, at 2:02 p.m.

Re: You Are Alone Out There!
FBC -- Wednesday, 22 November 2000, at 7:37 p.m.

Beliefs
Carl Tjerandsen -- Sunday, 19 November 2000, at 8:02 p.m.

Re: Beliefs
mike M -- Sunday, 19 November 2000, at 10:10 p.m.

Re: Beliefs
M. Hamilton -- Monday, 20 November 2000, at 10:42 a.m.

Re: Uneducated!
BERT -- Monday, 20 November 2000, at 7:54 a.m.

Re: What Jed said
Wayne Smith -- Wednesday, 15 November 2000, at 6:35 a.m.

Which roll ?
risto lappalainen -- Wednesday, 15 November 2000, at 8:55 a.m.

Re: Which roll ?
Greg Stamer -- Wednesday, 15 November 2000, at 10:20 a.m.

The "best roll?? . . .depends on the situation
Jed -- Wednesday, 15 November 2000, at 11:53 a.m.

Re: Uh oh--here we go again!!
Shawn Baker -- Wednesday, 15 November 2000, at 3:43 p.m.

thanks
risto -- Thursday, 16 November 2000, at 10:31 a.m.

Karate - defense
mike allen ---> -- Wednesday, 15 November 2000, at 2:17 p.m.

Re: Karate - defense
M. Hamilton -- Wednesday, 15 November 2000, at 9:51 p.m.

Re: Karate - defense
Shawn Baker -- Thursday, 16 November 2000, at 1:37 p.m.

Inside joke,...please excuse
Jed -- Thursday, 16 November 2000, at 5:43 p.m.

Re: Inside joke...nothing more
Shawn Baker -- Thursday, 16 November 2000, at 6:02 p.m.

Re: Inside joke...nothing more
M. Hamilton -- Thursday, 16 November 2000, at 7:06 p.m.

Re: Typing under the influence of microbrews
Shawn Baker -- Friday, 17 November 2000, at 1:32 p.m.

Re: Inside joke...nothing more
FBC -- Saturday, 18 November 2000, at 12:07 a.m.

Re: Karate - defense
Ian Johnston -- Thursday, 16 November 2000, at 3:32 a.m.

I misunderstood you point
mike allen ---> -- Thursday, 16 November 2000, at 12:53 p.m.

Re: Less is More When Rolling.
Don Beale -- Thursday, 16 November 2000, at 3:04 p.m.

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