Sea Kayaks Techniques Bulletin Board

Re: guns not for bears

Posted By: Alan
Date: Tuesday, 14 December 2004, at 7:40 p.m.

In Response To: Re: guns not for bears (Robert N Pruden)

: Personally, I like single-bore weapons but I have to say that a good spread
: of shot does wonders for hitting a target.

: I would imagine that the best time to use the bear spray is while you can
: smell its breath while it's doing one of those false charges.

: Robert N Pruden

Robert: You might laugh at bear spray but it should be used before a gun.
See:
http://mountain-prairie.fws.gov/species/mammals/grizzly/factsheets/bear%20spray.pdf
http://www.absc.usgs.gov/research/brownbears/pepperspray/pepperspray.htm (see graph)
http://www.adn.com/outdoors/story/3258528p-3288277c.html

James Gary Shelton has written a couple of books about bears. He has a negative attitude towards bears; but even he admits that the only really dangerous bears are "predatory" black bears (excluding polar bears). A grizzly can rip you apart quickly but (a) you have to cause the attack, and (b) the griz will stop the attack once you are not a threat.

In my opinion, paddlers are unlikely to "startle" a grizzly. Black bears that live in hunted areas are afraid of you. Black bears that associate people with food will weigh the reward against the effort; so you should be able to deal with these bears with a clean camp, keeping pepper spray as a backup. The rare black bear that is predatory will stalk you. These bears you have to convince that you are not food. This is a situation where you might have the time and composure to deliver a killing shot with a gun.

If you didn't grow up with guns, you are most likely incapable of using them correctly. As far as I am concerned, if you feel that you need to simultaneously fire both barrels of a double barrel shotgun to hit a bear (top quote), then you should not have a gun. A wounded bear is a very dangerous adversary.

Also consider that it is easy to carry bear spray with you 100% of the time in camp. The only really effective gun is a short barrel 12 ga pump shotgun with no choke and the 3 shot plug removed. This is not something you want to lug around in camp.

I consider both pepper spray and guns to be short range weapons (about 12 feet). In both cases, you need to be close to hit the target. In both cases, you should not fire except as a last resort.

In summary: there are situations where having a gun is useful, but you should not dismiss pepper spray.
Alan

Messages In This Thread

Ditch Kit Contents Ideas For Long Kayaking Trips *LINK*
Robert N Pruden -- Sunday, 28 November 2004, at 7:29 p.m.

Re: Ditch Kit Contents Ideas THANK YOU
Magoo_ns -- Saturday, 4 December 2004, at 12:06 p.m.

Reentries
Robert N Pruden -- Saturday, 4 December 2004, at 7:29 p.m.

Re: Reentries
Brian Nystrom -- Monday, 6 December 2004, at 8:22 a.m.

Re: Reentries
Robert N Pruden -- Tuesday, 7 December 2004, at 6:35 a.m.

Re: Reentries
Alan -- Tuesday, 7 December 2004, at 10:29 a.m.

Re: Reentries
FrankP -- Tuesday, 7 December 2004, at 2:22 p.m.

Agreed!
Robert N Pruden -- Thursday, 9 December 2004, at 10:22 p.m.

Re: Agreed!
Ed Hopkins -- Saturday, 11 December 2004, at 12:56 p.m.

Re: Agreed!
Robert N Pruden -- Monday, 13 December 2004, at 1:02 p.m.

Re: Reentries
Brian Nystrom -- Wednesday, 8 December 2004, at 10:44 a.m.

Re: Reentries *LINK*
FrankP -- Thursday, 9 December 2004, at 8:31 a.m.

Re: Reentries
Brian Nystrom -- Thursday, 9 December 2004, at 10:37 a.m.

Re: Reentries
Robert N Pruden -- Thursday, 9 December 2004, at 10:53 p.m.

Re: Reentries
Robert N Pruden -- Thursday, 9 December 2004, at 10:34 p.m.

That sounds like your testosterone talking
Brian Nystrom -- Friday, 10 December 2004, at 10:12 a.m.

Re: That sounds like your testosterone talking
Bert -- Friday, 10 December 2004, at 1:59 p.m.

Re: Esoterica
sing -- Friday, 10 December 2004, at 6:09 p.m.

IMO, the issue isn't the weapon...
Brian Nystrom -- Saturday, 11 December 2004, at 8:07 a.m.

Sounds like your inexperience talking, Bryan
Robert N Pruden -- Friday, 10 December 2004, at 8:26 p.m.

Re: inexperience talks, experience walks
Alan -- Friday, 10 December 2004, at 10:53 p.m.

Re: inexperience talks, experience walks
Robert N Pruden -- Saturday, 11 December 2004, at 2:22 p.m.

Not quite
Brian Nystrom -- Saturday, 11 December 2004, at 8:25 a.m.

Re: Not quite
Robert N Pruden -- Saturday, 11 December 2004, at 2:30 p.m.

The panic reaction and a bear story
Pamela -- Sunday, 12 December 2004, at 4:37 p.m.

Re: The panic reaction and a bear story
sing -- Monday, 13 December 2004, at 5:48 a.m.

Re: The panic reaction and a bear story
Will -- Monday, 13 December 2004, at 10:55 a.m.

Re: The panic reaction and a bear story
sing -- Monday, 13 December 2004, at 11:16 a.m.

BINGO! That's exactly it, Sing
Robert N Pruden -- Monday, 13 December 2004, at 12:57 p.m.

Guess I've been underestimating the pig threat *NM*
Mike Scarborough -- Tuesday, 14 December 2004, at 9:55 a.m.

The Flow of Forces
Robert N Pruden -- Monday, 13 December 2004, at 12:46 p.m.

One final note on ditch kits
Robert N Pruden -- Saturday, 11 December 2004, at 3:37 p.m.

Re: One final note on ditch kits
Alan -- Saturday, 11 December 2004, at 5:08 p.m.

question for Alan
Don Flowers -- Monday, 13 December 2004, at 11:11 a.m.

Re: question for Alan
Alan -- Monday, 13 December 2004, at 11:24 a.m.

Re: question for Alan
Don Flowers -- Monday, 13 December 2004, at 2:20 p.m.

Re: question for Alan
Alan -- Monday, 13 December 2004, at 2:27 p.m.

Re: question for Alan
shawn baker -- Wednesday, 15 December 2004, at 3:38 p.m.

Re: One final note on ditch kits
Will -- Saturday, 11 December 2004, at 9:46 p.m.

Re: ditch kits and Bears
Paul Jacob -- Monday, 13 December 2004, at 12:46 p.m.

I'll use it for a sweetgrass ceremony
Robert N Pruden -- Monday, 13 December 2004, at 1:05 p.m.

Re: One final note on ditch kits *LINK*
KenC -- Monday, 13 December 2004, at 11:57 p.m.

Thanks for the link, the rad was totally rivetting
Robert N Pruden -- Tuesday, 14 December 2004, at 11:28 a.m.

Re: One final note on ditch kits *Pic*
Bob Kelim -- Tuesday, 14 December 2004, at 8:35 a.m.

Re: One final note on ditch kits
Robert N Pruden -- Tuesday, 14 December 2004, at 11:31 a.m.

Re: One final note on ditch kits
Bob Kelim -- Tuesday, 14 December 2004, at 1:08 p.m.

Re: One final note on ditch kits
Robert N Pruden -- Tuesday, 14 December 2004, at 3:24 p.m.

Re: guns not for bears
shawn baker -- Tuesday, 14 December 2004, at 3:41 p.m.

Re: guns not for bears
Don Flowers -- Tuesday, 14 December 2004, at 5:30 p.m.

Re: guns not for bears
shawn baker -- Wednesday, 15 December 2004, at 3:33 p.m.

Re: guns not for bears
don flowers -- Wednesday, 15 December 2004, at 11:41 p.m.

Re: guns not for bears
Bob Kelim -- Wednesday, 15 December 2004, at 9:10 p.m.

Re: guns not for bears
Robert N Pruden -- Tuesday, 14 December 2004, at 6:19 p.m.

Re: guns not for bears
Alan -- Tuesday, 14 December 2004, at 7:40 p.m.

Re: One final note on ditch kits
KenC -- Tuesday, 14 December 2004, at 11:47 p.m.

Agreed
Brian Nystrom -- Wednesday, 15 December 2004, at 11:54 a.m.

Duct Tape *NM*
Don Flowers -- Wednesday, 15 December 2004, at 2:56 p.m.

The problem with that is...
Brian Nystrom -- Thursday, 16 December 2004, at 8:29 a.m.

Re: One final note on ditch kits
sing -- Tuesday, 14 December 2004, at 1:15 p.m.

Bush Whacking Blade
Robert N Pruden -- Tuesday, 14 December 2004, at 3:30 p.m.

Re: Bush Whacking Blade
sing -- Tuesday, 14 December 2004, at 3:54 p.m.

Re: One Final Bear Story
Will -- Tuesday, 14 December 2004, at 7:43 p.m.

What a thread!
Thomas Duncan -- Thursday, 16 December 2004, at 8:46 p.m.

VCP Igloo *LINK*
Nelson Labbé -- Friday, 17 December 2004, at 7:22 a.m.

Re: VCP Igloo *NM*
Thomas Duncan -- Friday, 17 December 2004, at 7:34 a.m.

Re: VCP Igloo Alternative
Evan Shaw -- Friday, 17 December 2004, at 9:35 a.m.

Another VCP Igloo Alternative... *LINK* *Pic*
Brian Nystrom -- Friday, 17 December 2004, at 5:49 p.m.

Re: Another VCP Igloo Alternative. yes it works!
Evan Shaw -- Friday, 17 December 2004, at 7:43 p.m.

Looks like a beached walarus but...
Robert N Pruden -- Saturday, 18 December 2004, at 1:30 p.m.

It looks better in red. *NM*
Brian Nystrom -- Sunday, 19 December 2004, at 8:39 a.m.

One way I used my knife was to clear an area
Robert N Pruden -- Friday, 17 December 2004, at 11:53 a.m.

Re: One way I used my knife was to clear an area
Pete -- Friday, 17 December 2004, at 1:51 p.m.

Re: What a thread!
Will -- Monday, 20 December 2004, at 12:48 p.m.

Big Knives revisited: Entymological Discovery... *LINK*
Robert N Pruden -- Thursday, 6 January 2005, at 9:51 p.m.

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