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Sea Kayaks Techniques Bulletin Board

Why my roll failed

Posted By: John Montgomery
Date: Thursday, 29 May 2003, at 1:44 a.m.

In Response To: Combining WW and Ocean technique (Jed)

: Even if the first roll fails, after two solid sculls (the initial roll sweep
: and the return sweep) the paddler's body is nearly half-way up.

Jed, I was wondering when someone was going to bring up this point and you finally smoked me out. Like most paddlers, my roll has failed me for almost every individual reason listed in The Bombproof Roll and Beyond. Diving paddles, pulling my head, weak hip-snap, etc., etc., etc. As you build up experience rolling, you can usually figure out what you did wrong on the first attempt and correct it on the second.

Two weeks before this surf trip, I spent a day doing rescue practice in rough conditions with another paddler. As usual, this included a lot of rolling, not just paddle-float self rescues, assisted rescues and the like. During this practice session, my roll failed me a couple times due to a diving paddle. Of course, when your paddle dives your body never breaks the surface of the water, not even partially. You just stay 100% inverted.

I'm not sure, but I believe that is what happened when I was in the surf last weekend. I should have figured it out immediately after the first failure but I didn't stop to concentrate on what I was doing. I think my prior frustration with getting thrashed four times in a row had something to do with that. Having a bombproof roll is more about mental toughness (maybe clarity is a better word) than physical strength. When I went to roll after getting beat up, my mind was filled with frustration, not clarity.

In regard to sculling, I have finished my roll with a scull on several occassions in the past, though I have to say it usually isn't necessary to do this if my roll technique was clean and smooth. If that's the case, I come up strong, steady, and ready to throw out any stroke that is called for.

Finally, I'd like to offer a recent observation, (not an excuse.) Here it is: I have more problems with my roll (almost always a diving paddle) when I'm wearing my old dry suit than when I'm wearing any other paddling clothing. Why? Well, I bought the full Kokotat Gore-Tex Meridian dry suit (with all the bells and whistles) in 1998. At the time, they were using a very heavy fabric which is about as stiff as Cordura pack cloth. When I wear this suit (which is only during rescue practice anymore, as I can't stand to put it on unless I really need the protection) I feel extremely constricted. I can roll, yes, but my technique has to be perfect. Or at least that's the way it seems. The suit just feels like it's restricting my movement.

On the surf trip, I finally decided to wear my dry suit on the third day because I didn't want to climb into a cold, wet wetsuit that morning. I probably rolled over 20 times in the two hours before my mishap, so obviously, my feeling of constriction is more mental than anything. But it's there, in the back of my mind.

To be honest, I really don't feel like throwing down ANOTHER big chunk of money to buy ANOTHER dry suit, but maybe that's what's needed. (As you know, the newer suits are made of much more supple fabric.) Better to pay for a new suit than a funeral, I suppose. (Again, I offer this as an observation, not an excuse.) John

Messages In This Thread

Incident Report
John Montgomery -- Tuesday, 27 May 2003, at 8:07 p.m.
Re: Incident Report
Brianne Corbett -- Tuesday, 27 May 2003, at 9:42 p.m.
Fear vs Panic
John Montgomery -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 10:10 a.m.
Re: Fear vs Panic
Brian Nystrom -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 12:36 p.m.
Re: sculling
Shawn Baker -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 12:49 p.m.
Re: sculling
Brian Nystrom -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 2:58 p.m.
Re: sculling
Bill Burton -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 5:32 p.m.
Re: sculling
Shawn Baker -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 7:24 p.m.
Re: sculling
Bob -- Thursday, 29 May 2003, at 7:59 a.m.
Re: sculling with a Euro paddle
Shawn Baker -- Thursday, 29 May 2003, at 10:27 a.m.
Re: sculling with a Euro paddle
Bill Burton -- Thursday, 29 May 2003, at 11:26 a.m.
I have to agree with Shawn
Brian Nystrom -- Thursday, 29 May 2003, at 12:38 p.m.
Re: I have to agree with Shawn
Karl H -- Thursday, 29 May 2003, at 2:23 p.m.
Re: flat vs. positive shaped paddles
Shawn Baker -- Thursday, 29 May 2003, at 3:40 p.m.
Additionally
Brian Nystrom -- Thursday, 29 May 2003, at 3:58 p.m.
Greenland is AN answer but not the only answer . .
Jed -- Saturday, 31 May 2003, at 3:10 a.m.
Re: Greenland is AN answer but not the only answer
Brian Nystrom -- Monday, 2 June 2003, at 6:34 a.m.
Re: Additionally
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- Saturday, 31 May 2003, at 4:21 p.m.
Re: Additionally
sing -- Saturday, 31 May 2003, at 5:16 p.m.
Thank you!
Karl -- Sunday, 1 June 2003, at 11:51 p.m.
Re: Thank you!
Tim Mattson -- Monday, 2 June 2003, at 1:30 a.m.
Re: Thank you!
Karl -- Monday, 2 June 2003, at 11:46 a.m.
Re: Thank you! *Pic*
Greg Stamer -- Monday, 2 June 2003, at 4:19 p.m.
Re: Thank you!
Shawn Baker -- Monday, 2 June 2003, at 5:49 p.m.
learning theory
Karl -- Tuesday, 3 June 2003, at 1:22 a.m.
Hmm...
Shawn Baker -- Tuesday, 3 June 2003, at 10:30 a.m.
Re: flat vs. positive shaped paddles
Mike and Rikki -- Sunday, 1 June 2003, at 2:46 p.m.
Re: sculling with a Euro paddle
Bob -- Saturday, 31 May 2003, at 7:05 a.m.
Re: sculling with a Euro paddle
Shawn Baker -- Sunday, 1 June 2003, at 12:24 p.m.
New Techiques
John Montgomery -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 1:35 p.m.
Different backgrounds
Brian Nystrom -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 2:57 p.m.
Combining WW and Ocean technique
Jed -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 11:54 p.m.
Why my roll failed
John Montgomery -- Thursday, 29 May 2003, at 1:44 a.m.
Re: Why my roll failed
Shawn Baker -- Thursday, 29 May 2003, at 10:29 a.m.
The knife
Brianne Corbett -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 1:27 p.m.
Re: The knife
John Montgomery -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 1:43 p.m.
Re: The knife *Pic*
Brian Nystrom -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 3:28 p.m.
Re: The knife
Shawn Baker -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 3:39 p.m.
Re: The knife
Brian Nystrom -- Thursday, 29 May 2003, at 12:16 p.m.
hook knife *Pic*
Reg Lake -- Thursday, 29 May 2003, at 3:20 p.m.
Re: hook knife *Pic*
Shawn Baker -- Thursday, 29 May 2003, at 3:56 p.m.
where?
Randy Knauff -- Thursday, 29 May 2003, at 8:54 p.m.
Re: where? *Pic*
Reg Lake -- Thursday, 29 May 2003, at 10:41 p.m.
The Knife: A bad idea
Shawn Baker -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 3:36 p.m.
The Knife:A bad idea
Brianne Corbett -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 5:16 p.m.
Re: The knife
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 4:58 p.m.
Re: The knife
Brianne Corbett -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 5:26 p.m.
Re: The knife
Shawn Baker -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 7:21 p.m.
Re: The knife
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- Thursday, 29 May 2003, at 1:12 p.m.
side release
mike allen -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 2:29 p.m.
already covered before, above - NT
mike allen -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 4:56 p.m.
Other extreme
Bob Kelim -- Tuesday, 27 May 2003, at 10:24 p.m.
Re: Incident Report
LeeG -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 12:06 a.m.
Re: Incident Report
Shawn Baker -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 11:49 a.m.
VERY Humbling
John Montgomery -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 12:49 p.m.
Re: VERY Humbling
jardinette -- Saturday, 15 July 2006, at 7:51 p.m.
Re: VERY Humbling
Mike Savage -- Saturday, 15 July 2006, at 9:14 p.m.
Re: VERY Humbling
jardinette -- Saturday, 15 July 2006, at 11:24 p.m.
Re: VERY Humbling *LINK*
Glen Smith -- Saturday, 15 July 2006, at 11:52 p.m.
do you mean a ww yak?
mike allen -- Sunday, 16 July 2006, at 3:02 a.m.
rescue help
Randy Knauff -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 11:56 a.m.
Re: rescue help
John Montgomery -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 12:19 p.m.
Terminology clarification
Brian Nystrom -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 12:46 p.m.
Re: Terminology clarification
John Montgomery -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 2:12 p.m.
Re: Terminology clarification
Brian Nystrom -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 3:02 p.m.
flailing vs inert
Randy Knauff -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 3:35 p.m.
Good point
Brian Nystrom -- Thursday, 29 May 2003, at 11:49 a.m.
Re: Terminology clarification
Randy Knauff -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 3:16 p.m.
Re: Terminology clarification
Shawn Baker -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 3:45 p.m.
Re: Terminology clarification
Randy Knauff -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 3:57 p.m.
Re: Terminology clarification
Shawn Baker -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 7:14 p.m.
Re: Terminology clarification
Mike Hamilton -- Thursday, 29 May 2003, at 7:57 a.m.
Re: Terminology clarification
Brian Nystrom -- Thursday, 29 May 2003, at 11:57 a.m.
Re: Helping Hand on conscious victim
Shawn Baker -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 3:47 p.m.
Helping Hand for Fat Boats *LINK*
John Montgomery -- Saturday, 31 May 2003, at 12:56 p.m.
Spyder!!
M. Hamilton -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 12:16 p.m.
Re: Spyder!!
John Montgomery -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 12:31 p.m.
Clarification on Spyder coaming
M. Hamilton -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 3:33 p.m.
Re: Clarification on Spyder coaming
Shawn Baker -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 3:49 p.m.
Shawn / John
M. Hamilton -- Friday, 30 May 2003, at 9:08 p.m.
Fact vs Fiction
John Montgomery -- Saturday, 31 May 2003, at 8:29 a.m.
Re: Fact vs Fiction
M. Hamilton -- Saturday, 31 May 2003, at 1:47 p.m.
Re: Fact vs Fiction
John Montgomery -- Saturday, 31 May 2003, at 4:15 p.m.
Re: Clarification on Spyder coaming
John Montgomery -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 5:09 p.m.
Roll Dammit!
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 4:50 p.m.
Roll or Die!
John Montgomery -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 5:46 p.m.
Re: Roll or Die!
Kenny Rolle -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 10:30 p.m.
Saved by my Right Knee
John Montgomery -- Saturday, 31 May 2003, at 8:30 p.m.
Re: Saved by my Right Knee
Glen Smith -- Saturday, 31 May 2003, at 9:56 p.m.
Re: Saved by my Right Knee
John Montgomery -- Saturday, 31 May 2003, at 10:15 p.m.
Re: Saved by my Right Knee
Glen Smith -- Saturday, 31 May 2003, at 11:17 p.m.
Re: Incident Report
Mike and Rikki -- Sunday, 1 June 2003, at 2:56 p.m.
What band? What song? *NM*
Bob Kelim -- Sunday, 1 June 2003, at 3:52 p.m.
Re: What band? What song?
Mike and Rikki -- Sunday, 1 June 2003, at 4:28 p.m.
Re: Incident Report
Bronson -- Sunday, 6 July 2008, at 4:00 a.m.
Re: Incident Report
Bronson -- Sunday, 6 July 2008, at 4:01 a.m.
Re: Incident Report
Reg Lake -- Sunday, 6 July 2008, at 12:51 p.m.

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