This bulletin board is sponsored by Guillemot Kayaks . Please feel free to post a response.

[ View Thread ] [ Post Response ] [ Return to Index ] [ Read Prev Msg ] [ Read Next Msg ]

Sea Kayaks Techniques Bulletin Board

Re: Thank you Shawn, very helpful comments...

Posted By: Brian Nystrom
Date: Friday, 23 May 2003, at 1:09 p.m.

In Response To: Re: Thank you Shawn, very helpful comments... (Shawn Baker)

: Me too. (Well done)...without wanting to be a dictator, it's tough to
: practice generalship without either a)being in the "line of
: fire" to do so or b) pissing off your students on a nice sunny
: afternoon paddle! :)

It seems that the low key approach works well when conditions are benign, but when the going gets dicey, someone has to take a command role. In an emergency, such as a rescue, our experience is that things work most smoothly when one EXPERIENCED individual is in charge and directs the rescue, while the rest of the group closes ranks and stands back.

: This is damn tough to teach in a classroom setting...even with 4:1
: student:instructor ratios. It's almost easier for a neophyte to go out and
: paddle with 2-3 more experienced paddlers on some fun paddles. Rather than
: one looking out for the mass, the mass looks out for the less experienced
: individual. Sensing this, the individual can relax more and learn faster.

Even during our trip leader training, this is the approach we take. Typically, there are as many "instructors" as there are students. There is one person directing the activities and the rest of us assist the students or act as designated "victims" during towing and rescue training. When we do "intro. to winter paddling" or "intro. to rough water trips", the experienced paddlers typically outnumber the newbies, often by a substantial margin. We don't specifically plan it that way, but the more "hard core" paddlers are always looking for an excuse to paddle, share their knowledge and do a rescue or two, should the need arise. From a safety standpoint, this guarantees that we can perform multiple complex rescues simultaneously, if necessary. It also allows people to push their limits, knowing that abundant, experienced help is close at hand.

: It makes friends and paddling partners, but it doesn't put meals on an
: instructor's table!!

Yeah, this works really well as a club practice, especially since we have somewhere around 60 people who've been through our leader's course, in addition to several outstanding paddlers and instructors.

Obviously, this "instructor overkill" isn't practical for a commercial school. Still, I have to question the wisdom of sending a single instructor out on open water with 4-6 students. It's not so much the ratio that concerns me as it is the fact that there is only one highly trained, well-equipped person in the group. In an emergency situation, that may not be enough. It's one thing for one person to take out a good sized group in controlled, protected conditions. Open water is a whole 'nuther animal. For myself, I find that even taking out a couple of people on my own can be nerve wracking, as I know that I can only assist one at a time if something goes wrong.

Messages In This Thread

Incident Report
David -- Tuesday, 20 May 2003, at 10:48 a.m.
Re: Incident Report
Shawn Baker -- Tuesday, 20 May 2003, at 12:06 p.m.
Insightful and a welcome comment as usual, thanx S *NM*
David -- Wednesday, 21 May 2003, at 8:30 a.m.
Thanks for posting this
Brian Nystrom -- Tuesday, 20 May 2003, at 12:20 p.m.
hope the weather is better next weekend
Frank Eberdt -- Tuesday, 20 May 2003, at 12:42 p.m.
Re: hope the weather is better next weekend
David -- Wednesday, 21 May 2003, at 8:10 a.m.
WB David!
Robert N Pruden -- Wednesday, 21 May 2003, at 11:00 p.m.
Re: WB David!
Mike and Rikki -- Thursday, 22 May 2003, at 12:46 a.m.
I'm ready to go.
Robert N Pruden -- Friday, 23 May 2003, at 6:01 p.m.
Re: I'm ready to go.
Mike and Rikki -- Saturday, 24 May 2003, at 1:20 a.m.
Re: I'm ready to go.
Robert N Pruden -- Saturday, 24 May 2003, at 8:33 a.m.
Re: I'm ready to go.
Mike and Rikki -- Saturday, 24 May 2003, at 6:25 p.m.
Re: Incident Report
Ian Johnston -- Tuesday, 20 May 2003, at 9:14 p.m.
Thanks for your comments
David -- Wednesday, 21 May 2003, at 8:04 a.m.
Re: Thanks for your comments
LeeG -- Wednesday, 21 May 2003, at 9:27 a.m.
Answers
David -- Friday, 23 May 2003, at 10:19 a.m.
Re: Answers
LeeG -- Friday, 23 May 2003, at 6:42 p.m.
Re: Thanks for your comments
Shawn Baker -- Wednesday, 21 May 2003, at 12:31 p.m.
Re: towing practice
LeeG -- Wednesday, 21 May 2003, at 4:21 p.m.
I will try it this weekend and let ya know, thx! *NM*
David -- Friday, 23 May 2003, at 10:42 a.m.
Thank you Shawn, very helpful comments...
David -- Friday, 23 May 2003, at 10:31 a.m.
Re: Thank you Shawn, very helpful comments...
Shawn Baker -- Friday, 23 May 2003, at 11:17 a.m.
Re: Thank you Shawn, very helpful comments...
Brian Nystrom -- Friday, 23 May 2003, at 1:09 p.m.
Cheers, Very Insightful
David -- Sunday, 25 May 2003, at 7:13 a.m.
Re: Racer in the lead?
Val Wann -- Friday, 23 May 2003, at 2:58 p.m.
Precisely
David -- Sunday, 25 May 2003, at 7:20 a.m.
Re: that's a great point
Shawn Baker -- Tuesday, 27 May 2003, at 10:25 a.m.
Re: that's a great point
Pamela -- Tuesday, 27 May 2003, at 8:05 p.m.
Re: that's a great point
Shawn Baker -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 11:48 a.m.
Class ratios
Pamela -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 12:20 p.m.
Re: Class ratios
Shawn Baker -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 12:57 p.m.
... but less $ for kayaks
haresfur -- Thursday, 29 May 2003, at 1:20 a.m.
More questions and observations.
Brian Nystrom -- Wednesday, 21 May 2003, at 12:34 p.m.
Some thoughts
Pamela -- Wednesday, 21 May 2003, at 7:46 p.m.
Re: Some thoughts
David -- Friday, 23 May 2003, at 10:40 a.m.
GLAD YOUR BACK
Mike and Rikki -- Thursday, 22 May 2003, at 12:38 a.m.
Cheers M8E!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *NM*
David -- Friday, 23 May 2003, at 10:41 a.m.
Re: Cheers M8E!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Robert N Pruden -- Tuesday, 27 May 2003, at 3:32 p.m.
Re: Incident Report
Petewp -- Friday, 23 May 2003, at 12:52 p.m.
And I too.......
David -- Sunday, 25 May 2003, at 7:15 a.m.
Re: Incident Report
Petewp -- Saturday, 24 May 2003, at 3:17 p.m.
Exactly
David -- Sunday, 25 May 2003, at 7:19 a.m.
Whats really scarey to me...
Petewp -- Sunday, 25 May 2003, at 9:54 a.m.
Re: Whats really scarey to me...
Shawn Baker -- Tuesday, 27 May 2003, at 10:39 a.m.
Re: Whats really scarey to me...
Petewp -- Tuesday, 27 May 2003, at 3:19 p.m.
Re: Whats really scarey to me...
Shawn Baker -- Tuesday, 27 May 2003, at 5:23 p.m.
Re: Exactly
Ian Johnston -- Sunday, 25 May 2003, at 9:31 p.m.
...and gills!!! *NM*
Shawn Baker -- Tuesday, 27 May 2003, at 10:27 a.m.

[ View Thread ] [ Post Response ] [ Return to Index ] [ Read Prev Msg ] [ Read Next Msg ]

Sea Kayaks Techniques Bulletin Board is maintained by Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks with WebBBS 5.12.

Kayak Trips

Kayak Building

Kayaking Technique

Boat Design

 Guillemot | SEE Kayak Directory | Kayak Forum

The Kayak Forum is Sponsored By

Guillemot Kayaks

Guillemot Kayaks