Sea Kayaks Techniques Bulletin Board

More questions and observations.

Posted By: Brian Nystrom
Date: Wednesday, 21 May 2003, at 12:34 p.m.

In Response To: Thanks for your comments (David)

Did your assistants have radios? I realize that communication is difficult in rough conditions, but perhaps some of the communication problems you experienced could have been avoided with radios. I've been in situations where a group came apart due to conditions and they definitely helped.

I would suggest re-evaluating the "three lemon rule". Any one of the three conditions you listed would have been reason enough to abandon the crossing attempt. The group is only as strong as it's weakest member. Pushing them beyond their ability in conditions where recovery would be difficult to impossible doesn't seem like a good idea. For example, what would have happened if the injured paddler's shoulder gave out and/or you had multiple capsizes? When we want to advance our skills, or the skills of others, we do it in more controllable conditions (lots of rescuers, bail-outs available, help nearby if needed), not in a desperate situation.

How experienced was your leader? I get the impression that he was recruited from the participants in the trip. Is that the case? Our standard trip staff consists of a leader and three trained assistants on any formal group trip. The formation we use is a basic diamond with a lead, two wings and a sweep, and the participants in the middle. Of course, on "show and go" trips we're not this formal, but we're usually paddling with people who's abilities are known.

Hindsight is always 20:20, so please don't think I'm being judgemental. I've only been through our club's leader training and am currently working with this year's class as an instructor/designated victim (aka, a "teabag"). I'm really curious how other groups do things and appreciate any insights you may have.

Messages In This Thread

Incident Report
David -- Tuesday, 20 May 2003, at 10:48 a.m.

Re: Incident Report
Shawn Baker -- Tuesday, 20 May 2003, at 12:06 p.m.

Insightful and a welcome comment as usual, thanx S *NM*
David -- Wednesday, 21 May 2003, at 8:30 a.m.

Thanks for posting this
Brian Nystrom -- Tuesday, 20 May 2003, at 12:20 p.m.

hope the weather is better next weekend
Frank Eberdt -- Tuesday, 20 May 2003, at 12:42 p.m.

Re: hope the weather is better next weekend
David -- Wednesday, 21 May 2003, at 8:10 a.m.

WB David!
Robert N Pruden -- Wednesday, 21 May 2003, at 11:00 p.m.

Re: WB David!
Mike and Rikki -- Thursday, 22 May 2003, at 12:46 a.m.

I'm ready to go.
Robert N Pruden -- Friday, 23 May 2003, at 6:01 p.m.

Re: I'm ready to go.
Mike and Rikki -- Saturday, 24 May 2003, at 1:20 a.m.

Re: I'm ready to go.
Robert N Pruden -- Saturday, 24 May 2003, at 8:33 a.m.

Re: I'm ready to go.
Mike and Rikki -- Saturday, 24 May 2003, at 6:25 p.m.

Re: Incident Report
Ian Johnston -- Tuesday, 20 May 2003, at 9:14 p.m.

Thanks for your comments
David -- Wednesday, 21 May 2003, at 8:04 a.m.

Re: Thanks for your comments
LeeG -- Wednesday, 21 May 2003, at 9:27 a.m.

Answers
David -- Friday, 23 May 2003, at 10:19 a.m.

Re: Answers
LeeG -- Friday, 23 May 2003, at 6:42 p.m.

Re: Thanks for your comments
Shawn Baker -- Wednesday, 21 May 2003, at 12:31 p.m.

Re: towing practice
LeeG -- Wednesday, 21 May 2003, at 4:21 p.m.

I will try it this weekend and let ya know, thx! *NM*
David -- Friday, 23 May 2003, at 10:42 a.m.

Thank you Shawn, very helpful comments...
David -- Friday, 23 May 2003, at 10:31 a.m.

Re: Thank you Shawn, very helpful comments...
Shawn Baker -- Friday, 23 May 2003, at 11:17 a.m.

Re: Thank you Shawn, very helpful comments...
Brian Nystrom -- Friday, 23 May 2003, at 1:09 p.m.

Cheers, Very Insightful
David -- Sunday, 25 May 2003, at 7:13 a.m.

Re: Racer in the lead?
Val Wann -- Friday, 23 May 2003, at 2:58 p.m.

Precisely
David -- Sunday, 25 May 2003, at 7:20 a.m.

Re: that's a great point
Shawn Baker -- Tuesday, 27 May 2003, at 10:25 a.m.

Re: that's a great point
Pamela -- Tuesday, 27 May 2003, at 8:05 p.m.

Re: that's a great point
Shawn Baker -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 11:48 a.m.

Class ratios
Pamela -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 12:20 p.m.

Re: Class ratios
Shawn Baker -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 12:57 p.m.

... but less $ for kayaks
haresfur -- Thursday, 29 May 2003, at 1:20 a.m.

More questions and observations.
Brian Nystrom -- Wednesday, 21 May 2003, at 12:34 p.m.

Some thoughts
Pamela -- Wednesday, 21 May 2003, at 7:46 p.m.

Re: Some thoughts
David -- Friday, 23 May 2003, at 10:40 a.m.

GLAD YOUR BACK
Mike and Rikki -- Thursday, 22 May 2003, at 12:38 a.m.

Cheers M8E!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *NM*
David -- Friday, 23 May 2003, at 10:41 a.m.

Re: Cheers M8E!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Robert N Pruden -- Tuesday, 27 May 2003, at 3:32 p.m.

Re: Incident Report
Petewp -- Friday, 23 May 2003, at 12:52 p.m.

And I too.......
David -- Sunday, 25 May 2003, at 7:15 a.m.

Re: Incident Report
Petewp -- Saturday, 24 May 2003, at 3:17 p.m.

Exactly
David -- Sunday, 25 May 2003, at 7:19 a.m.

Whats really scarey to me...
Petewp -- Sunday, 25 May 2003, at 9:54 a.m.

Re: Whats really scarey to me...
Shawn Baker -- Tuesday, 27 May 2003, at 10:39 a.m.

Re: Whats really scarey to me...
Petewp -- Tuesday, 27 May 2003, at 3:19 p.m.

Re: Whats really scarey to me...
Shawn Baker -- Tuesday, 27 May 2003, at 5:23 p.m.

Re: Exactly
Ian Johnston -- Sunday, 25 May 2003, at 9:31 p.m.

...and gills!!! *NM*
Shawn Baker -- Tuesday, 27 May 2003, at 10:27 a.m.

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