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Sea Kayaks Techniques Bulletin Board

Re: Thanks for your comments

Posted By: Shawn Baker
Date: Wednesday, 21 May 2003, at 12:31 p.m.

In Response To: Thanks for your comments (David)

As Lee said, what are your goals?

Were the leader/sweep training as junior leaders, or simply students who needed a little more challenge than the rest?

Immersion pro?

If tour boats are a regular feature, do they generally stay on a set course? I assume the ferry does. Should lead have known not to paddle into their course, or did they aim for him?

Have the students debrief themselves; you may find that they are more honest (and possibly brutally honest) to tell themselves things than you might be comfortable saying. Then, you can comment on all the good things they did.

It didn't come through that way in your post, but I believe being a dictator in the "heat of battle" might help. Not that people would like it--not that they should have to. If you were able to contact lead by radio, "get your butt back here to help" might have both clicked him out of his own panic and turned him around to help you out. If he was truly panicked, leaving by himself put him in a position where you couldn't help him either.

Use a "team towing" concept. Rather than suggesting or viewing towing as a method of last resort (which can sometimes be demoralizing, causing the towee to refuse a tow), use towing for "practice". Much earlier on, you could have hooked Hermes to Steve, telling them both you wanted to conserve her shoulder. (which you would...you'd also slow Steve down). Use towing all the time, so when you actually need it, it's not a big "to-do".

See also:
http://www.useakayak.com/team_towing.html

You made the correct decision in choosing the ferry.

I think communication suffered early on, which caused you to have to deal with all the lemons.

If "3 students had later stated that they felt anxiety during the crossing," there was vital information you weren't aware of. You needed to check with them more constantly, or if they felt afraid to tell you, chances are, at least one other student may have known of the feelings of the anxious 3. Asking questions like, "do you think the group is doing well on this crossing? Should we bag it and turn back at the halfway point" can get the question you need answered, without putting an individual on the spot.

It doesn't appear as if you put anyone on the spot, but if someone feels on the spot, they'll sooner lie to you than admit a perceived weakness.

: By the way, I will compile all comments and introduce them during our review
: of the incident. So fire away, if we made mistakes here or could have done
: better, please let us know. Safety can always improve.

Good for you for the peer review, and great for you for reviewing this with the students. They have tons to learn from this; admitting you've learned a thing or two yourself will make their learning more meaningful and permanent.

shawn

Messages In This Thread

Incident Report
David -- Tuesday, 20 May 2003, at 10:48 a.m.
Re: Incident Report
Shawn Baker -- Tuesday, 20 May 2003, at 12:06 p.m.
Insightful and a welcome comment as usual, thanx S *NM*
David -- Wednesday, 21 May 2003, at 8:30 a.m.
Thanks for posting this
Brian Nystrom -- Tuesday, 20 May 2003, at 12:20 p.m.
hope the weather is better next weekend
Frank Eberdt -- Tuesday, 20 May 2003, at 12:42 p.m.
Re: hope the weather is better next weekend
David -- Wednesday, 21 May 2003, at 8:10 a.m.
WB David!
Robert N Pruden -- Wednesday, 21 May 2003, at 11:00 p.m.
Re: WB David!
Mike and Rikki -- Thursday, 22 May 2003, at 12:46 a.m.
I'm ready to go.
Robert N Pruden -- Friday, 23 May 2003, at 6:01 p.m.
Re: I'm ready to go.
Mike and Rikki -- Saturday, 24 May 2003, at 1:20 a.m.
Re: I'm ready to go.
Robert N Pruden -- Saturday, 24 May 2003, at 8:33 a.m.
Re: I'm ready to go.
Mike and Rikki -- Saturday, 24 May 2003, at 6:25 p.m.
Re: Incident Report
Ian Johnston -- Tuesday, 20 May 2003, at 9:14 p.m.
Thanks for your comments
David -- Wednesday, 21 May 2003, at 8:04 a.m.
Re: Thanks for your comments
LeeG -- Wednesday, 21 May 2003, at 9:27 a.m.
Answers
David -- Friday, 23 May 2003, at 10:19 a.m.
Re: Answers
LeeG -- Friday, 23 May 2003, at 6:42 p.m.
Re: Thanks for your comments
Shawn Baker -- Wednesday, 21 May 2003, at 12:31 p.m.
Re: towing practice
LeeG -- Wednesday, 21 May 2003, at 4:21 p.m.
I will try it this weekend and let ya know, thx! *NM*
David -- Friday, 23 May 2003, at 10:42 a.m.
Thank you Shawn, very helpful comments...
David -- Friday, 23 May 2003, at 10:31 a.m.
Re: Thank you Shawn, very helpful comments...
Shawn Baker -- Friday, 23 May 2003, at 11:17 a.m.
Re: Thank you Shawn, very helpful comments...
Brian Nystrom -- Friday, 23 May 2003, at 1:09 p.m.
Cheers, Very Insightful
David -- Sunday, 25 May 2003, at 7:13 a.m.
Re: Racer in the lead?
Val Wann -- Friday, 23 May 2003, at 2:58 p.m.
Precisely
David -- Sunday, 25 May 2003, at 7:20 a.m.
Re: that's a great point
Shawn Baker -- Tuesday, 27 May 2003, at 10:25 a.m.
Re: that's a great point
Pamela -- Tuesday, 27 May 2003, at 8:05 p.m.
Re: that's a great point
Shawn Baker -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 11:48 a.m.
Class ratios
Pamela -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 12:20 p.m.
Re: Class ratios
Shawn Baker -- Wednesday, 28 May 2003, at 12:57 p.m.
... but less $ for kayaks
haresfur -- Thursday, 29 May 2003, at 1:20 a.m.
More questions and observations.
Brian Nystrom -- Wednesday, 21 May 2003, at 12:34 p.m.
Some thoughts
Pamela -- Wednesday, 21 May 2003, at 7:46 p.m.
Re: Some thoughts
David -- Friday, 23 May 2003, at 10:40 a.m.
GLAD YOUR BACK
Mike and Rikki -- Thursday, 22 May 2003, at 12:38 a.m.
Cheers M8E!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *NM*
David -- Friday, 23 May 2003, at 10:41 a.m.
Re: Cheers M8E!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Robert N Pruden -- Tuesday, 27 May 2003, at 3:32 p.m.
Re: Incident Report
Petewp -- Friday, 23 May 2003, at 12:52 p.m.
And I too.......
David -- Sunday, 25 May 2003, at 7:15 a.m.
Re: Incident Report
Petewp -- Saturday, 24 May 2003, at 3:17 p.m.
Exactly
David -- Sunday, 25 May 2003, at 7:19 a.m.
Whats really scarey to me...
Petewp -- Sunday, 25 May 2003, at 9:54 a.m.
Re: Whats really scarey to me...
Shawn Baker -- Tuesday, 27 May 2003, at 10:39 a.m.
Re: Whats really scarey to me...
Petewp -- Tuesday, 27 May 2003, at 3:19 p.m.
Re: Whats really scarey to me...
Shawn Baker -- Tuesday, 27 May 2003, at 5:23 p.m.
Re: Exactly
Ian Johnston -- Sunday, 25 May 2003, at 9:31 p.m.
...and gills!!! *NM*
Shawn Baker -- Tuesday, 27 May 2003, at 10:27 a.m.

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