Sea Kayaks Techniques Bulletin Board

Re: Forget David... Let's play some pool.

Posted By: Brianne Corbett
Date: Tuesday, 28 May 2002, at 9:06 p.m.

In Response To: Re: Forget David... Let's play some pool. (Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks)

: My 10+ year old Perception Dancer has a warning sticker on it quite like
: their current warning. Maybe your have experience with them from before
: that time, but it seems to me they have been quite responsible.

They do have a nice new manual which is quite acceptable to me. They did not always have such a strong safety orientation in their manuals... but I am happy with the latest version.

I am not happy with their TV programs nor am I happy with their website. The manual is buried as a single link under Warranty. The safety info in the site other than this single link is dismal in comparison. Then you have to counterbalance what good info they do have with bad stuff like this:

http://www.kayaker.com/community/updates.asp

The notion of glorifying running a 23 foot dam (with backroller) with no mention whatsoever of the dangers involved is insanity. They do this constantly.... dam running... waterfalls... creeking... surf kayaking... ocean touring... they hit em all. They bury the really well done warnings and thrust into your face incredibly dangerous stuff made to look super exciting and marketable. The company is almost schizophrenic.

: Where do you draw the line for "enablers". Is it all manufacturers
: who supply equipment to kayakers? Should Teva have a similar warning on
: their sandals? PFDs are sold to all boaters including sailors and
: jetskiers. Should the same warning be included even if it is irrelevant to
: many users?

Oh... I don't know... Teva sandals don't at this time "enable" one to kayak... they provide no necessary or sufficient condition of kayaking... so I would not require it of them. PFD's specifically designed for kayakers... absolutely. PFD's specifically designed for waterskiing... No... they would have their own warnings pertinent to that activity, assuming that it has a sufficient inherent risk.

: Figure Skating involves risks of physical harm. Are the networks
: irresponsible for not mentioning that you could break and ankle trying to
: do an axel?

Breaking an ankle and death are radically different levels of risk. This difference is recognized in the law and should be recognized by common sense.

: In my watching of OLN I have seen at least one person die
: kayaking. Is it enough to show someone dropping to his death, or must they
: also say that you may die? Do they need to say this every time they show
: someone going over a waterfall.

Running a waterfall is very dangerous. Running a dam is very dangerous. The activity should not be encouraged. It should be discouraged. Impressionable young people under peer pressure are going to do it. I view creating a culture of warnings to them as something akin to the way project DARE's warnings operate with drugs.

: Seems to me they often hype up how
: dangerous an act is with a fair degree of regularity. Networks like saying
: how dangerous things are because that makes the show more dramatic. I am
: sure you can find individual shows or episodes where if a viewer were to
: watch only that particular show, they might be under the impression that
: dropping off a 30' waterfall is as natural as crossing the street, but I
: don't think anyone who watches this kind of television with any regularity
: is under a false impression of how safe it is.

Your point is well taken. but I think you can see that I have been alluding to more than just the empty words... but to the spin on the words... as you point out, danger can be a positive motivator if you spin it to young people who get praise for doing more and more risky things.

Dopers put a lot of pressure on others to do drugs... not to be sissies etc. Project DARE tried to change the spin... to make young people feel that taking the risk of doing drugs is dumb... not something worthy of praise.

We need to do something like that. Perception needs to do something like that. I tried to do something like that when one boy tried to convince 3 of his friends to jump off Miner's Castle Rock at Pictured Rocks into Lake Superior... a 100' sheer drop to bedrock shelf under a few feet of water. From down below I tried to tell these boys that the jump can compress their spines and paralyze them for life. I lost... the boy called them sissies and yellow... they all jumped... and survived... exhilarated and ready to boast of their great feat... until one of them or a friend dies a the base of Miner's Castle.

I'll keep warning boys who want to jump from Miner's Castle. If only so I don't have to rescue them or fish out their dead bodies. I don't know exactly how to put the right spin on the warning. But I will keep trying to find it... because I believe it is the right thing to do.

Safe Paddling!
Brianne

Messages In This Thread

pfd doubts
Petewp -- Tuesday, 14 May 2002, at 9:03 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
DLonborg -- Tuesday, 14 May 2002, at 9:42 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Charles Cooper -- Tuesday, 14 May 2002, at 10:46 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Ted Henry -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 10:50 a.m.

Re: pfd doubts
DLonborg -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 1:34 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Ted Henry -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 3:42 p.m.

Re: I sink without a PFD.
Shawn Baker -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 7:21 p.m.

Re: I sink without a PFD.
Alex M -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 4:25 a.m.

Re: Bow flip/drain
Shawn Baker -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 12:03 p.m.

Re: Bow flip/drain w/ Paddle Float
Jed -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 7:49 p.m.

Re: I sink without a PFD.
Kurt Hoffman -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 7:48 p.m.

Re: I sink without a PFD.
Grant G -- Friday, 17 May 2002, at 5:15 a.m.

Re: I sink without a PFD.
Craig Beverly -- Wednesday, 22 May 2002, at 1:20 a.m.

Re: pfd doubts
LeeG -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 12:01 a.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Petewp -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 10:46 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
LeeG -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 11:12 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Reg -- Friday, 17 May 2002, at 1:37 a.m.

Re: kapok
LeeG -- Friday, 17 May 2002, at 7:42 a.m.

Re: kapok
Topher -- Friday, 17 May 2002, at 9:27 a.m.

Re: kapok
Craig Mackinnon -- Friday, 17 May 2002, at 9:54 a.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- Friday, 17 May 2002, at 9:30 a.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Topher -- Friday, 17 May 2002, at 4:56 p.m.

Re: That's some pretty fancy circular reasoning
Shawn Baker -- Friday, 17 May 2002, at 5:40 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Craig Mackinnon -- Friday, 17 May 2002, at 6:15 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- Friday, 17 May 2002, at 8:12 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
LeeG -- Friday, 17 May 2002, at 11:14 p.m.

A dare for Lee
Grant G -- Saturday, 18 May 2002, at 4:27 a.m.

Re: A dare for Lee
LeeG -- Saturday, 18 May 2002, at 9:36 a.m.

It helps the Coast Guard........
Bruce S. -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 12:05 a.m.

Re: It helps the Coast Guard........
Bob Kelim -- Sunday, 19 May 2002, at 8:48 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
David -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 2:08 a.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Dan St. Gean -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 9:01 a.m.

Re: pfd doubts
LeeG -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 5:52 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Dan St. Gean -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 11:50 a.m.

Re: topic
LeeG -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 11:59 a.m.

Re: topic
Dan St. Gean -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 1:14 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 9:06 a.m.

Listen to Nick
David -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 9:35 a.m.

Face Up
don flowers -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 10:43 a.m.

eye opening
mike allen ---> -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 4:40 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
sing -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 10:46 a.m.

Her Demand
Brianne Corbett -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 4:06 p.m.

Re: Her Demand
Topher -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 10:38 a.m.

Re: Asking questions...
Shawn Baker -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 12:00 p.m.

Fashion statements...
Craig Mackinnon -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 2:23 p.m.

Re: head injuries
LeeG -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 12:02 p.m.

Re: Her Demand
Brianne Corbett -- Sunday, 19 May 2002, at 12:08 a.m.

Error correction.
Brianne Corbett -- Sunday, 19 May 2002, at 12:13 a.m.

Re: pfd doubts
gene -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 4:06 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 6:21 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
gene -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 6:39 p.m.

sometimes pfd
mike allen ---> -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 4:28 p.m.

Re: I'm a role model, even for goobers.
Shawn Baker -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 7:18 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Andy Miller -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 11:02 a.m.

Unequal Blubber
Eric -- Friday, 17 May 2002, at 5:57 a.m.

Re: Unequal Blubber
David -- Sunday, 19 May 2002, at 7:04 a.m.

Re: Unequal Blubber
Brianne Corbett -- Sunday, 19 May 2002, at 8:23 p.m.

Re: Unequal Blubber
David -- Monday, 20 May 2002, at 11:16 a.m.

Re: Unequal Blubber
Brianne Corbett -- Monday, 20 May 2002, at 5:12 p.m.

Re: Unequal Blubber
David -- Monday, 20 May 2002, at 10:49 p.m.

Re: Unequal Blubber
David -- Monday, 20 May 2002, at 10:50 p.m.

This response is not about kayaking... sorry all.
Brianne Corbett -- Tuesday, 21 May 2002, at 6:33 p.m.

Re: This response is not about kayaking... sorry a
Pete S -- Wednesday, 22 May 2002, at 9:41 a.m.

Re: This response is not about kayaking... sorry a
Carnivore -- Wednesday, 22 May 2002, at 10:34 p.m.

Re: This response is not about kayaking... sorry a
David -- Wednesday, 22 May 2002, at 9:47 a.m.

Gee Bree, did David strike a nerve?
Brian Nystrom -- Wednesday, 22 May 2002, at 12:20 p.m.

Re: Gee Bree, did David strike a nerve?
David -- Wednesday, 22 May 2002, at 4:28 p.m.

Re: Gee Bree, did David strike a nerve?
Brianne Corbett -- Thursday, 23 May 2002, at 7:31 p.m.

Forget David... Let's play some pool.
Brianne Corbett -- Thursday, 23 May 2002, at 7:28 p.m.

Re: Human Nature
Robert -- Friday, 24 May 2002, at 12:23 p.m.

Re: Forget David... Let's play some pool.
Brian Nystrom -- Friday, 24 May 2002, at 1:07 p.m.

Re: Forget David... Let's play some pool.
Brianne Corbett -- Saturday, 25 May 2002, at 1:03 a.m.

Re: Forget David... Let's play some pool.
Brian Nystrom -- Saturday, 25 May 2002, at 10:07 a.m.

Re: Forget David... Let's play some pool.
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- Friday, 24 May 2002, at 2:47 p.m.

Re: Forget David... Let's play some pool.
Brianne Corbett -- Saturday, 25 May 2002, at 1:19 a.m.

Re: Forget David... Let's play some pool.
Brian Nystrom -- Saturday, 25 May 2002, at 10:37 a.m.

Re: Forget David... Let's play some pool.
Brianne Corbett -- Tuesday, 28 May 2002, at 9:15 p.m.

Re: Forget David... Let's play some pool.
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- Tuesday, 28 May 2002, at 10:24 a.m.

Re: Forget David... Let's play some pool.
Brianne Corbett -- Tuesday, 28 May 2002, at 9:06 p.m.

Re: safety warnings
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- Wednesday, 29 May 2002, at 9:48 a.m.

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