: First, let me qualify my comments by saying that they are from the
: perspective of a former year round white water paddler who started
: paddling in the days before all of the modern gear that we have now.
: In twenty five or thirty years of ww paddling I have never experienced this
: problem. This in spite of the fact that I have flipped literally tens of
: thousands of times in cold water (32 - 40 degrees f). A lot of my paddling
: was in water in the 30's, typically with a helmet and maybe a swim cap. I
: personally believe that this problem is a panic thing more than a
: physiological phenomenon. Yes, I have felt the desire to "gasp",
: but have always been able to easily control it. I credit knowing what to
: expect, knowing in advance how I will react.
I too have rolled many times in colder water without problems. The fact that this reaction was totally unexpected, based on my previous experience, was one of the reasons I had difficulty handling it.
: Maybe, but I doubt it. I think most of the effect comes from having the face
: and chest getting hit with the sudden cold.
That was my understanding of the phenomenon, as well.
: I guess that if it is, as I suspect more mental than physical,
No, it's a physiological response to cold water. According to the literature I've seen, it will happen even if one is prepared for it.
: that the lack of a hood may be a
: contributer since you are used to wearing one.
I suspect that was a major contributing factor.
: BTW: are we talking neoprene hood here or pile? I can't imagine wearing a
: neoprene hood in air above the 20's.
Neoprene, 3mm. I find it very comfortable in air temps in the 40's, unless it's really calm and sunny. In typical winter conditions, it's great.
: In a sense it could be the fact that you did always wear the hood in the past
: that made you unable to deal with it's absence.
I would say that perhaps the hood has kept if from happening, but it's not a matter of "dealing with it". It either happens or it doesn't. If it does, then you have to deal with it, which I did not do well. Now that I've been through it, if (when?) it happens again, I should be able to keep my wits about me and roll back up.
: Fifty degree water isn't all that cold, unless you will be exposed to more
: than a few minutes of immersion. A sudden flip in 50 degree water
: shouldn't be all that much of a shock to a paddler with a paddling jacket
: and at least one layer of even light weight pile underneath. It might not
: be pleasant, but it shouldn't be a big deal either.
I agree. I've rolled in such water many times without a hood. I did so again yesterday as an experiment. No problems. That's why I'm mystified by this occurance.
: NOTHING is ever 100% reliable. You need to be mentally ready and able to cope
: with a missed roll.
No doubt. Normally, if I miss a roll, I just set up again, pay attention to my form and roll up.
: Frequency of exposure, not length of exposure is what is important here.
: Hanging upside down for two minutes is of dubious value. Practicing a few
: rolls every trip would go a lot farther towards perparing you, but
: "surprise" immersions would do a lot more. I think that other
: than storm paddling or surfing, there is seldom a reason to find yourself
: suddenly upside down in a sea kayak, so many sea kayakers never really get
: these "surprise" immersions and therefore never get used to
: them. I believe that is why you hear more about this gasp reflex in
: seakayaking circles than in ww circles (despite the fact that serious ww
: paddlers paddle as much or more in the winter than in summer). Sea
: kayakers are just more likely to be mentally unprepared (hard core storm
: paddlers and surfers excluded here).
I play in surf specifically to get used to getting tossed around and forcibly capsized, in addition to catching an occasionaly good ride. I enjoy it. My roll hasn't failed me under this type of conditions for quite a while. The gasping situation occurred on flat water when I was calm, comfortable, relaxed and executing familiar moves. No surprises.
: True, but it depends on what you call "taking it lightly". I
: suspect that people can be so cautious in their attire and other factors
: that they never get used to the cold or learn to be comfortable with it.
: As a result they are far more likely to panic when confronted with a
: "situation". The fact that folks dress to the extent that they
: usually never really feel the cold only makes them more likely to panic
: when they do.
I have to disagree with you. I paddle all winter long. I dress to remain comfortable and to survive immersions of reasonable length. I don't "feel the cold" when I roll, except on my face. I certainly didn't feel the cold when I had the gasping episode; if anything, I was too warm. I had used the water to cool off two or three times prior to the incident. Since this was a skill session and I expected to be drafted into being a rescue victim for the students, I was dressed for spending considerable time in the water.
: I believe that it is best to dress for "comfort" in the air and
: "survival" in the water. Taking in to account the amount of time
: you might be in the water is a big part of this.
Absolutely.
: If you are never more than a few hundred yards from shore and the air is warm
: it doesn't take much clothing even if the water is in the 30's. I have a
: friend who is an EXTREMELY hardcore ww paddler who wears fuzzy rubber
: shorts a pile sweater and a drytop in 30 something degree water all the
: time. I suspect he is in a LOT less danger than most folks who are wearing
: a LOT more (and probably consider him reckless).
: On the other hand if you are doing a long crossing. You need to be prepared
: for longer exposure. This requires more clothing.
You've hit upon a major difference between whitewater and sea kayaking. Even if you're close to shore, an offshore wind can carry you out to sea. This is not a risk in whitewater, where a river bank is typically within swimming, or drifting, distance.
: Glad there was no real danger.
You and me both! 
: I am not sure you made the right conclusions
: though.
Hopefully, the explanations above will help clarify the issues. I'm still not sure what cause the problem. I may do some (carefully supervised) experiments to see if I can duplicate it. It's never happened before and hopefully it won't happen again.
