Sea Kayaks Techniques Bulletin Board

Re: Human Nature

Posted By: Robert
Date: Friday, 24 May 2002, at 12:23 p.m.

In Response To: Forget David... Let's play some pool. (Brianne Corbett)

makes a person involved in an arguement very good at advancing their view, but very bad at really getting the other arguement. The great upside of this is that the listeners receive a full and complete statement of each position so they are in a wonderful position to make their own informed conclusion. A debt of gratitude is owed to the participants for this. The down side is the listeners get both arguements long before the participants do.
Robert

: Brian...

: Sounds like you are ready to shoot some more pool... well I have washed my
: face, powdered up, chalked a new stick and I'm ready to shoot too. So
: let's shoot some pool Fast Eddy!

: I do get passionate about things... emotional. But, there is nothing wrong
: with being emotional so long as you don't allow it to interfere with
: correctly focusing on issues and reasons. I try hard to focus on issues
: not people.

: I am not perfect though I do try to minimize inconsistency in my own thinking
: as best I can. You are welcome to cut and paste my actual words with
: message references to show these contradictions. If you find one or more,
: I will admit them and rethink whatever issues I was dealing with.

: I don't think I have contradicted myself on any significant issue. So I
: suppose I ought to say "Show me" cuz I don't believe it.

: I paused the warning thread because I was asked to by a BBS participant in
: deference to some poor dead guy and his family. I thought that was
: reasonable. After a sufficient period of time elapsed I asked myself two
: questions...

: 1. Are people still interested in this? I answered... No.
: 2. Is there any possibility of getting you to change your view in the tiniest
: way? I looked at your last messages and saw you repeat exactly what you
: said at the start. Nothing I had said in between had the slightest
: effect... so why waste my time and yours pushing water uphill? There
: seemed to be no real purpose to continuing.

: If you still want to rock and roll... let's do it. I am more than willing to
: start right where we left off or go right back to square one and begin
: anew. I have completed my certification studies and I have more time
: available. This time I won't try to persuade you or anyone else... this
: time I will do it for fun... as an intellectual challenge... a logic
: puzzle if you like... or maybe like shooting a nice game of pool.

: Philosophy comes from the Greek word PHILOSOPHIA... PHILO referring to the
: love of something and SOPHIA meaning wisdom... which to the Greeks meant
: not science or high tech... but "saavy"... "street
: knowledge"... like buying all the olive presses when you came up with
: the prediction of a good harvest... that is what philosophia was all
: about. So I make no apologies for the practical application of knowledge.
: I am quite proud of my ability to apply knowledge to situations.

: So now you said what you had to say. I have responded and said what I had to
: say. You call it. Shall we play or just agree to disagree?

: If you want to play... I just got back from the front door. UPS delivered my
: new Petzl Falcon climbing harness. It has a 20 panel brochure attached
: showing the proper uses and improper uses of this equipment with warnings
: in English, French, German, Italian, and Spanish just like the ones we
: spoke about. Indeed, there is a 10" x 1.5" warning with
: illustrations sewn onto the harness belt itself. Ad to that, Karst Sport's
: invoice says WARNING in a black bar running entirely across the bottom of
: the invoice. Below the bar is their warning. I will print it here. This is
: the retailer talking... what I call an "enabler". This one is a
: "responsible enabler".

: WARNING
: "Many of the items we sell are designed for use in caving, climbing,
: technical rescue and other such activities that are very dangerous by
: their nature. Any person using this equipment is personally responsible
: for learning the proper techniques through personal instruction by an
: instructor competant in all safety techniques and systems. You cannot
: receive this knowledge from a book, catalog or a product instruction
: manual. You are responsible for your own actions and decisions. We are not
: responsible for consequences, direct or indirect or accidental, or any
: other type of damage resulting from the use of the products we sell."

: Petzl's warnings are even stronger.

: Why exactly are they doing this? Are they stupid? What would you say to
: convince Petzl or Karst to save the time and money they are putting into
: writing these things and just selling the products naked... no warnings?

: Don't convince me... convince Petzl. I will send your argument to them and
: let's see what they say. Let's get international about our debate and get
: some real enablers involved and see if either of us can convince someone
: of something we are saying! If you need Petzl's warning text, I will send
: it right away upon request.

: It will be fun. Your shot.

: Safe Paddling!
: Bree

Messages In This Thread

pfd doubts
Petewp -- Tuesday, 14 May 2002, at 9:03 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
DLonborg -- Tuesday, 14 May 2002, at 9:42 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Charles Cooper -- Tuesday, 14 May 2002, at 10:46 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Ted Henry -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 10:50 a.m.

Re: pfd doubts
DLonborg -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 1:34 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Ted Henry -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 3:42 p.m.

Re: I sink without a PFD.
Shawn Baker -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 7:21 p.m.

Re: I sink without a PFD.
Alex M -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 4:25 a.m.

Re: Bow flip/drain
Shawn Baker -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 12:03 p.m.

Re: Bow flip/drain w/ Paddle Float
Jed -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 7:49 p.m.

Re: I sink without a PFD.
Kurt Hoffman -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 7:48 p.m.

Re: I sink without a PFD.
Grant G -- Friday, 17 May 2002, at 5:15 a.m.

Re: I sink without a PFD.
Craig Beverly -- Wednesday, 22 May 2002, at 1:20 a.m.

Re: pfd doubts
LeeG -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 12:01 a.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Petewp -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 10:46 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
LeeG -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 11:12 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Reg -- Friday, 17 May 2002, at 1:37 a.m.

Re: kapok
LeeG -- Friday, 17 May 2002, at 7:42 a.m.

Re: kapok
Topher -- Friday, 17 May 2002, at 9:27 a.m.

Re: kapok
Craig Mackinnon -- Friday, 17 May 2002, at 9:54 a.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- Friday, 17 May 2002, at 9:30 a.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Topher -- Friday, 17 May 2002, at 4:56 p.m.

Re: That's some pretty fancy circular reasoning
Shawn Baker -- Friday, 17 May 2002, at 5:40 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Craig Mackinnon -- Friday, 17 May 2002, at 6:15 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- Friday, 17 May 2002, at 8:12 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
LeeG -- Friday, 17 May 2002, at 11:14 p.m.

A dare for Lee
Grant G -- Saturday, 18 May 2002, at 4:27 a.m.

Re: A dare for Lee
LeeG -- Saturday, 18 May 2002, at 9:36 a.m.

It helps the Coast Guard........
Bruce S. -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 12:05 a.m.

Re: It helps the Coast Guard........
Bob Kelim -- Sunday, 19 May 2002, at 8:48 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
David -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 2:08 a.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Dan St. Gean -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 9:01 a.m.

Re: pfd doubts
LeeG -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 5:52 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Dan St. Gean -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 11:50 a.m.

Re: topic
LeeG -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 11:59 a.m.

Re: topic
Dan St. Gean -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 1:14 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 9:06 a.m.

Listen to Nick
David -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 9:35 a.m.

Face Up
don flowers -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 10:43 a.m.

eye opening
mike allen ---> -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 4:40 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
sing -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 10:46 a.m.

Her Demand
Brianne Corbett -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 4:06 p.m.

Re: Her Demand
Topher -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 10:38 a.m.

Re: Asking questions...
Shawn Baker -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 12:00 p.m.

Fashion statements...
Craig Mackinnon -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 2:23 p.m.

Re: head injuries
LeeG -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 12:02 p.m.

Re: Her Demand
Brianne Corbett -- Sunday, 19 May 2002, at 12:08 a.m.

Error correction.
Brianne Corbett -- Sunday, 19 May 2002, at 12:13 a.m.

Re: pfd doubts
gene -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 4:06 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 6:21 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
gene -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 6:39 p.m.

sometimes pfd
mike allen ---> -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 4:28 p.m.

Re: I'm a role model, even for goobers.
Shawn Baker -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 7:18 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Andy Miller -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 11:02 a.m.

Unequal Blubber
Eric -- Friday, 17 May 2002, at 5:57 a.m.

Re: Unequal Blubber
David -- Sunday, 19 May 2002, at 7:04 a.m.

Re: Unequal Blubber
Brianne Corbett -- Sunday, 19 May 2002, at 8:23 p.m.

Re: Unequal Blubber
David -- Monday, 20 May 2002, at 11:16 a.m.

Re: Unequal Blubber
Brianne Corbett -- Monday, 20 May 2002, at 5:12 p.m.

Re: Unequal Blubber
David -- Monday, 20 May 2002, at 10:49 p.m.

Re: Unequal Blubber
David -- Monday, 20 May 2002, at 10:50 p.m.

This response is not about kayaking... sorry all.
Brianne Corbett -- Tuesday, 21 May 2002, at 6:33 p.m.

Re: This response is not about kayaking... sorry a
Pete S -- Wednesday, 22 May 2002, at 9:41 a.m.

Re: This response is not about kayaking... sorry a
Carnivore -- Wednesday, 22 May 2002, at 10:34 p.m.

Re: This response is not about kayaking... sorry a
David -- Wednesday, 22 May 2002, at 9:47 a.m.

Gee Bree, did David strike a nerve?
Brian Nystrom -- Wednesday, 22 May 2002, at 12:20 p.m.

Re: Gee Bree, did David strike a nerve?
David -- Wednesday, 22 May 2002, at 4:28 p.m.

Re: Gee Bree, did David strike a nerve?
Brianne Corbett -- Thursday, 23 May 2002, at 7:31 p.m.

Forget David... Let's play some pool.
Brianne Corbett -- Thursday, 23 May 2002, at 7:28 p.m.

Re: Human Nature
Robert -- Friday, 24 May 2002, at 12:23 p.m.

Re: Forget David... Let's play some pool.
Brian Nystrom -- Friday, 24 May 2002, at 1:07 p.m.

Re: Forget David... Let's play some pool.
Brianne Corbett -- Saturday, 25 May 2002, at 1:03 a.m.

Re: Forget David... Let's play some pool.
Brian Nystrom -- Saturday, 25 May 2002, at 10:07 a.m.

Re: Forget David... Let's play some pool.
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- Friday, 24 May 2002, at 2:47 p.m.

Re: Forget David... Let's play some pool.
Brianne Corbett -- Saturday, 25 May 2002, at 1:19 a.m.

Re: Forget David... Let's play some pool.
Brian Nystrom -- Saturday, 25 May 2002, at 10:37 a.m.

Re: Forget David... Let's play some pool.
Brianne Corbett -- Tuesday, 28 May 2002, at 9:15 p.m.

Re: Forget David... Let's play some pool.
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- Tuesday, 28 May 2002, at 10:24 a.m.

Re: Forget David... Let's play some pool.
Brianne Corbett -- Tuesday, 28 May 2002, at 9:06 p.m.

Re: safety warnings
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- Wednesday, 29 May 2002, at 9:48 a.m.

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