Sea Kayaks Techniques Bulletin Board

Forget David... Let's play some pool.

Posted By: Brianne Corbett
Date: Thursday, 23 May 2002, at 7:28 p.m.

In Response To: Gee Bree, did David strike a nerve? (Brian Nystrom)

Brian...

Sounds like you are ready to shoot some more pool... well I have washed my face, powdered up, chalked a new stick and I'm ready to shoot too. So let's shoot some pool Fast Eddy!

: It's nice that you're so learned, but I find it rather amusing that all this
: study of logic and philosophy hasn't prevented you from: a) letting your
: emotions get the best of you in debates

I do get passionate about things... emotional. But, there is nothing wrong with being emotional so long as you don't allow it to interfere with correctly focusing on issues and reasons. I try hard to focus on issues not people.

: b) contradicting yourself on numerous occasions

I am not perfect though I do try to minimize inconsistency in my own thinking as best I can. You are welcome to cut and paste my actual words with message references to show these contradictions. If you find one or more, I will admit them and rethink whatever issues I was dealing with.

I don't think I have contradicted myself on any significant issue. So I suppose I ought to say "Show me" cuz I don't believe it.

: c) avoiding answering "inconvenient" questions that are posed to
: you

I paused the warning thread because I was asked to by a BBS participant in deference to some poor dead guy and his family. I thought that was reasonable. After a sufficient period of time elapsed I asked myself two questions...

1. Are people still interested in this? I answered... No.
2. Is there any possibility of getting you to change your view in the tiniest way? I looked at your last messages and saw you repeat exactly what you said at the start. Nothing I had said in between had the slightest effect... so why waste my time and yours pushing water uphill? There seemed to be no real purpose to continuing.

: d) conveniently bailing out of debates when someone points these things out
: to you

If you still want to rock and roll... let's do it. I am more than willing to start right where we left off or go right back to square one and begin anew. I have completed my certification studies and I have more time available. This time I won't try to persuade you or anyone else... this time I will do it for fun... as an intellectual challenge... a logic puzzle if you like... or maybe like shooting a nice game of pool.

: I guess this must have something to do with the practical application of
: knowledge...

Philosophy comes from the Greek word PHILOSOPHIA... PHILO referring to the love of something and SOPHIA meaning wisdom... which to the Greeks meant not science or high tech... but "saavy"... "street knowledge"... like buying all the olive presses when you came up with the prediction of a good harvest... that is what philosophia was all about. So I make no apologies for the practical application of knowledge. I am quite proud of my ability to apply knowledge to situations.

So now you said what you had to say. I have responded and said what I had to say. You call it. Shall we play or just agree to disagree?

If you want to play... I just got back from the front door. UPS delivered my new Petzl Falcon climbing harness. It has a 20 panel brochure attached showing the proper uses and improper uses of this equipment with warnings in English, French, German, Italian, and Spanish just like the ones we spoke about. Indeed, there is a 10" x 1.5" warning with illustrations sewn onto the harness belt itself. Ad to that, Karst Sport's invoice says WARNING in a black bar running entirely across the bottom of the invoice. Below the bar is their warning. I will print it here. This is the retailer talking... what I call an "enabler". This one is a "responsible enabler".

WARNING
"Many of the items we sell are designed for use in caving, climbing, technical rescue and other such activities that are very dangerous by their nature. Any person using this equipment is personally responsible for learning the proper techniques through personal instruction by an instructor competant in all safety techniques and systems. You cannot receive this knowledge from a book, catalog or a product instruction manual. You are responsible for your own actions and decisions. We are not responsible for consequences, direct or indirect or accidental, or any other type of damage resulting from the use of the products we sell."

Petzl's warnings are even stronger.

Why exactly are they doing this? Are they stupid? What would you say to convince Petzl or Karst to save the time and money they are putting into writing these things and just selling the products naked... no warnings?

Don't convince me... convince Petzl. I will send your argument to them and let's see what they say. Let's get international about our debate and get some real enablers involved and see if either of us can convince someone of something we are saying! If you need Petzl's warning text, I will send it right away upon request.

It will be fun. Your shot.

Safe Paddling!
Bree

Messages In This Thread

pfd doubts
Petewp -- Tuesday, 14 May 2002, at 9:03 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
DLonborg -- Tuesday, 14 May 2002, at 9:42 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Charles Cooper -- Tuesday, 14 May 2002, at 10:46 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Ted Henry -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 10:50 a.m.

Re: pfd doubts
DLonborg -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 1:34 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Ted Henry -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 3:42 p.m.

Re: I sink without a PFD.
Shawn Baker -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 7:21 p.m.

Re: I sink without a PFD.
Alex M -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 4:25 a.m.

Re: Bow flip/drain
Shawn Baker -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 12:03 p.m.

Re: Bow flip/drain w/ Paddle Float
Jed -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 7:49 p.m.

Re: I sink without a PFD.
Kurt Hoffman -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 7:48 p.m.

Re: I sink without a PFD.
Grant G -- Friday, 17 May 2002, at 5:15 a.m.

Re: I sink without a PFD.
Craig Beverly -- Wednesday, 22 May 2002, at 1:20 a.m.

Re: pfd doubts
LeeG -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 12:01 a.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Petewp -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 10:46 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
LeeG -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 11:12 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Reg -- Friday, 17 May 2002, at 1:37 a.m.

Re: kapok
LeeG -- Friday, 17 May 2002, at 7:42 a.m.

Re: kapok
Topher -- Friday, 17 May 2002, at 9:27 a.m.

Re: kapok
Craig Mackinnon -- Friday, 17 May 2002, at 9:54 a.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- Friday, 17 May 2002, at 9:30 a.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Topher -- Friday, 17 May 2002, at 4:56 p.m.

Re: That's some pretty fancy circular reasoning
Shawn Baker -- Friday, 17 May 2002, at 5:40 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Craig Mackinnon -- Friday, 17 May 2002, at 6:15 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- Friday, 17 May 2002, at 8:12 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
LeeG -- Friday, 17 May 2002, at 11:14 p.m.

A dare for Lee
Grant G -- Saturday, 18 May 2002, at 4:27 a.m.

Re: A dare for Lee
LeeG -- Saturday, 18 May 2002, at 9:36 a.m.

It helps the Coast Guard........
Bruce S. -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 12:05 a.m.

Re: It helps the Coast Guard........
Bob Kelim -- Sunday, 19 May 2002, at 8:48 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
David -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 2:08 a.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Dan St. Gean -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 9:01 a.m.

Re: pfd doubts
LeeG -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 5:52 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Dan St. Gean -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 11:50 a.m.

Re: topic
LeeG -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 11:59 a.m.

Re: topic
Dan St. Gean -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 1:14 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 9:06 a.m.

Listen to Nick
David -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 9:35 a.m.

Face Up
don flowers -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 10:43 a.m.

eye opening
mike allen ---> -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 4:40 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
sing -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 10:46 a.m.

Her Demand
Brianne Corbett -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 4:06 p.m.

Re: Her Demand
Topher -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 10:38 a.m.

Re: Asking questions...
Shawn Baker -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 12:00 p.m.

Fashion statements...
Craig Mackinnon -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 2:23 p.m.

Re: head injuries
LeeG -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 12:02 p.m.

Re: Her Demand
Brianne Corbett -- Sunday, 19 May 2002, at 12:08 a.m.

Error correction.
Brianne Corbett -- Sunday, 19 May 2002, at 12:13 a.m.

Re: pfd doubts
gene -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 4:06 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 6:21 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
gene -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 6:39 p.m.

sometimes pfd
mike allen ---> -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 4:28 p.m.

Re: I'm a role model, even for goobers.
Shawn Baker -- Wednesday, 15 May 2002, at 7:18 p.m.

Re: pfd doubts
Andy Miller -- Thursday, 16 May 2002, at 11:02 a.m.

Unequal Blubber
Eric -- Friday, 17 May 2002, at 5:57 a.m.

Re: Unequal Blubber
David -- Sunday, 19 May 2002, at 7:04 a.m.

Re: Unequal Blubber
Brianne Corbett -- Sunday, 19 May 2002, at 8:23 p.m.

Re: Unequal Blubber
David -- Monday, 20 May 2002, at 11:16 a.m.

Re: Unequal Blubber
Brianne Corbett -- Monday, 20 May 2002, at 5:12 p.m.

Re: Unequal Blubber
David -- Monday, 20 May 2002, at 10:49 p.m.

Re: Unequal Blubber
David -- Monday, 20 May 2002, at 10:50 p.m.

This response is not about kayaking... sorry all.
Brianne Corbett -- Tuesday, 21 May 2002, at 6:33 p.m.

Re: This response is not about kayaking... sorry a
Pete S -- Wednesday, 22 May 2002, at 9:41 a.m.

Re: This response is not about kayaking... sorry a
Carnivore -- Wednesday, 22 May 2002, at 10:34 p.m.

Re: This response is not about kayaking... sorry a
David -- Wednesday, 22 May 2002, at 9:47 a.m.

Gee Bree, did David strike a nerve?
Brian Nystrom -- Wednesday, 22 May 2002, at 12:20 p.m.

Re: Gee Bree, did David strike a nerve?
David -- Wednesday, 22 May 2002, at 4:28 p.m.

Re: Gee Bree, did David strike a nerve?
Brianne Corbett -- Thursday, 23 May 2002, at 7:31 p.m.

Forget David... Let's play some pool.
Brianne Corbett -- Thursday, 23 May 2002, at 7:28 p.m.

Re: Human Nature
Robert -- Friday, 24 May 2002, at 12:23 p.m.

Re: Forget David... Let's play some pool.
Brian Nystrom -- Friday, 24 May 2002, at 1:07 p.m.

Re: Forget David... Let's play some pool.
Brianne Corbett -- Saturday, 25 May 2002, at 1:03 a.m.

Re: Forget David... Let's play some pool.
Brian Nystrom -- Saturday, 25 May 2002, at 10:07 a.m.

Re: Forget David... Let's play some pool.
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- Friday, 24 May 2002, at 2:47 p.m.

Re: Forget David... Let's play some pool.
Brianne Corbett -- Saturday, 25 May 2002, at 1:19 a.m.

Re: Forget David... Let's play some pool.
Brian Nystrom -- Saturday, 25 May 2002, at 10:37 a.m.

Re: Forget David... Let's play some pool.
Brianne Corbett -- Tuesday, 28 May 2002, at 9:15 p.m.

Re: Forget David... Let's play some pool.
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- Tuesday, 28 May 2002, at 10:24 a.m.

Re: Forget David... Let's play some pool.
Brianne Corbett -- Tuesday, 28 May 2002, at 9:06 p.m.

Re: safety warnings
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- Wednesday, 29 May 2002, at 9:48 a.m.

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