Sea Kayaks Techniques Bulletin Board

Re: Dogma and Gurus

Posted By: David
Date: Thursday, 23 May 2002, at 10:23 a.m.

In Response To: Dogma and Gurus (M.Hamilton)

Interesting comment, over the years, different trends come and go. I was taught initially to concentrate on torso rotation, but focus on pushing forward with the leading hand to bring the torso around (similar to crossing over the center line of the boat). M. (is it Mark?), that heavy duty rotation of the torso is energy expensive, I agree, real hard to do over the long haul. There is one concept from karate which is useful maybe; the beginner learns to punch from the hip, not the arms, by exaggerating the hip rotation. At about brown belt level, this changes to counter-rotation, a kind of figure 8 movement of the hips; after black belt, the focus is on subtle movement of the hips, more on the intention of movement (if that makes sense in Western language). So the karate master looks like they are doing nothing, but they hit really hard with minimum hip rotation. I think we might see this kind of thing in paddling. You can drive the paddle from the hips, the body center, without a pronounced torso rotation, obtaining power from forward foot pressure on the peg, and maybe this is what expert kayakers learn to do. When I watch Inuit footage, they seem to just be sitting in the yak paddling nonchalently, from ice flow to ice flow. Interesting response, thanks M.

: It just amazes me the garbage I hear about so called experts. Lets see, I
: won't bend my arms at all, and I'll over rotate my torso on every stroke
: so I have to rotate it all the way back for the next stroke..... These are
: bad paddlers people. Guys like Duff will never say these absolutist and
: stupid things that can only be some freaks mis-interpretation of a
: training drill. Just nonsense. Watch vids of Greg Barton etc., and listen
: to these folk. If you can paddle day after day 20-50 knot days and feel
: good, guess what? Your stroke is good! Of course the arm bends during a
: forward stroke! I hope so!!!! The worst paddler I ever saw regarding
: forward stroke was a so called ACA expert. Unbelievable. What amazes me
: even more is the fact that people buy this garbage?

Messages In This Thread

Forward Stroke Revisited
David -- Wednesday, 22 May 2002, at 9:45 a.m.

Forward Stroke Link:
Craig Mackinnon -- Wednesday, 22 May 2002, at 11:15 a.m.

why you hide behind an authority? *NM*
risto -- Wednesday, 22 May 2002, at 1:16 p.m.

Re: why you hide behind an authority?
Shawn Baker -- Wednesday, 22 May 2002, at 1:20 p.m.

Re: teachers
LeeG -- Wednesday, 22 May 2002, at 5:53 p.m.

re-inventing the wheel is fun....
risto -- Friday, 24 May 2002, at 12:20 p.m.

Re: re-inventing the wheel is fun....
don flowers -- Friday, 24 May 2002, at 1:05 p.m.

Re: Forward Stroke Link:
Ted Henry -- Wednesday, 22 May 2002, at 3:59 p.m.

Re: Forward Stroke Link:
don flowers -- Wednesday, 22 May 2002, at 6:40 p.m.

Re: Forward Stroke Link:
KenB -- Wednesday, 22 May 2002, at 7:13 p.m.

Thanks for the link *NM*
don flowers -- Wednesday, 22 May 2002, at 8:52 p.m.

Re: Forward Stroke Revisited
Shawn Baker -- Wednesday, 22 May 2002, at 1:19 p.m.

Re: Forward Stroke Revisited
Randy Knauff -- Wednesday, 22 May 2002, at 3:18 p.m.

Re: Forward Stroke Revisited
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- Wednesday, 22 May 2002, at 5:14 p.m.

Re: Forward Stroke Revisited
LeeG -- Wednesday, 22 May 2002, at 6:03 p.m.

Re: Forward Stroke Pedal=Paddle
dave mcadoo -- Wednesday, 22 May 2002, at 6:18 p.m.

Re: Forward Stroke Revisited
njkayaker -- Wednesday, 22 May 2002, at 7:01 p.m.

Re: Forward Stroke Revisited
David -- Wednesday, 22 May 2002, at 10:50 p.m.

Dogma and Gurus
M.Hamilton -- Thursday, 23 May 2002, at 2:10 a.m.

Re: Dogma and Gurus
David -- Thursday, 23 May 2002, at 10:23 a.m.

Re: Dogma and Gurus
David -- Thursday, 23 May 2002, at 10:34 a.m.

Re: Dogma and Gurus
Shawn Baker -- Thursday, 23 May 2002, at 11:30 a.m.

Re: Dogma and Gurus
LeeG -- Thursday, 23 May 2002, at 12:16 p.m.

Paddling "styles"
Craig Mackinnon -- Thursday, 23 May 2002, at 12:20 p.m.

15 heads are better than one....
David -- Thursday, 23 May 2002, at 11:56 p.m.

Re: correction
LeeG -- Friday, 24 May 2002, at 10:23 a.m.

Re: correction
David -- Friday, 24 May 2002, at 6:15 p.m.

Re: correction
Jed -- Friday, 24 May 2002, at 9:31 p.m.

Re: Dogma and Gurus
Brianne Corbett -- Thursday, 23 May 2002, at 8:44 p.m.

"Curls for the girls"
Craig Mackinnon -- Friday, 24 May 2002, at 9:44 a.m.

Not necessarily
Brian Nystrom -- Friday, 24 May 2002, at 1:24 p.m.

Not necessarily...
Craig Mackinnon -- Friday, 24 May 2002, at 3:38 p.m.

Re: Not necessarily...
Brian Nystrom -- Friday, 24 May 2002, at 5:02 p.m.

Re: Not necessarily...
Greg Stamer -- Friday, 24 May 2002, at 6:49 p.m.

Thanks for clearing that up, Greg.
Brian Nystrom -- Saturday, 25 May 2002, at 9:21 a.m.

Re: Thanks for clearing that up, Greg.
Greg Stamer -- Tuesday, 28 May 2002, at 12:12 p.m.

Re: Thanks for clearing that up, Greg.
Brian Nystrom -- Tuesday, 28 May 2002, at 12:28 p.m.

Dogma Rulz, Catma Drools
Jed -- Thursday, 23 May 2002, at 12:32 p.m.

A good demo of torso rotation benefits
Pamela -- Thursday, 23 May 2002, at 7:36 p.m.

Maybe not dogma but it seems to help
Jed -- Thursday, 23 May 2002, at 8:08 p.m.

Re: A good demo of torso rotation benefits
David -- Friday, 24 May 2002, at 12:00 a.m.

Over rotation
M.Hamilton -- Friday, 24 May 2002, at 12:39 a.m.

Not MH above,but a prank based on a conversation *NM*
MH -- Saturday, 25 May 2002, at 5:34 p.m.

Interestingly, no one used the word "cadence" *NM*
risto -- Thursday, 23 May 2002, at 1:40 p.m.

Re: or breathing *NM*
LeeG -- Thursday, 23 May 2002, at 10:14 p.m.

or,... synchronizing the lot... *NM*
risto -- Saturday, 25 May 2002, at 8:45 a.m.

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