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Re: Thought from an X Y guy
By:Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks
Date: 7/18/2001, 9:22 am
In Response To: Thought from an X Y guy (!RUSS)

: Nick,
: Glad you bring your expertise to this one.

: I can't argue with your engineering logic.

: All I can say as an "operater" I think of them as two very seperate
: but related class of boats. Like cousins in the same family.

: I find I paddle them differntly. And expect different things out of each type
: of boat. To my feel they just feel different. Sure that difference is not
: as as pronounced as a canoe vs yak. Part of that may be that most of the
: Bidarkas I have paddled are SOF and most of the yaks I have paddled are
: wood or composites.

: Still to my feel they just seem to fly different. Both have ther benifits. As
: Rob mention the lifting action I expect out of a Bidarka bow can at times
: add distance to the ride. (up and down) In surf I find something very
: different.

: Having said all of that as ever, your post is another good lesson in how
: think "design" Thanks for the good lesson :)

I would just say that it is the individual boats that you tried that were different. And it is quite possible that the individual baidarkas you tried were all based on the same original Aleut boat. In the scheme of things there are not that many baidarkas documented and modern designers tend to choose between one or two boats when they are searching for inspiration. So, most of the generalizations made about baidarkas are based on the observations of a couple boats which may or may not be representative of the class as a whole.

A lot of modern "baidarkas" are based on a boat collected on Atka Island in 1934, pictured in Figure 17 of "Qajaq". It is one of the best documented baidarkas, complete with a table of offsets, so it is an easy source of inspiration. It also has fairly reasonable dimmensions for use by modern paddlers. This boat has fairly deep "V" bottom which will create a boat with fairly stiff tracking characteristics. However, if you look at other documented Aleut boats you will see that that this shape is not a universal characteristic of all "baidarkas". Many of the other boats have a much more rounded bottom and as such you can expect them to feel quite different in the water.

So I would say you could generalize about the performance of baidarka style kayaks based on the 1934 Atka Island boat, but the conclusions may not apply to all kayaks based on the general baidarka profile. I suppose that since so many modern baidarka's are based on that one sample design, the generalization about baidarkas tends to work, but it is too small a sample to really be accurate.

Messages In This Thread

Laugh ing Loon Shooting Star
Susan -- 7/16/2001, 6:23 am
Darn it! Now I want to build one :D *NM*
Chip Sandresky -- 7/17/2001, 7:30 pm
Re: Yeah, I like the sound of fast
Don Beale -- 7/17/2001, 7:40 pm
Faster then sin
!RUSS -- 7/16/2001, 2:56 pm
Baidarka vs Greenland
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 7/17/2001, 5:54 pm
Re: Baidarka vs Greenland
Rob Macks -- 7/18/2001, 1:35 pm
Re: Baidarka vs Greenland
Greg Stamer -- 7/21/2001, 10:48 am
Re: Baidarka vs Greenland
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 7/19/2001, 2:41 pm
Re: Baidarka vs Greenland
Rob Macks -- 7/20/2001, 10:37 am
Re: Baidarka vs Greenland
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 7/23/2001, 11:59 am
Re: Baidarka vs Greenland
West -- 7/20/2001, 3:29 pm
Re: Baidarka vs Greenland
Rob Macks -- 7/20/2001, 4:30 pm
Re: Baidarka vs Greenland
West -- 7/20/2001, 6:13 pm
Re: Baidarka vs Greenland
Rob Macks -- 7/20/2001, 8:57 pm
Re: Baidarka vs Greenland
Rob Macks -- 7/20/2001, 11:34 am
Thought from an X Y guy
!RUSS -- 7/17/2001, 9:33 pm
Re: Thought from an X Y guy
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 7/18/2001, 9:22 am
Re: Thought from an X Y guy - seconded
Roy Morford -- 7/18/2001, 11:17 am
One or two caveats, many questions
Paul G. Jacobson -- 7/17/2001, 9:14 pm
Re: Speed testing?
Val Wann -- 7/17/2001, 1:38 pm
Sin in NH must travel at 4 knots or less :) *NM*
Paul G. Jacobson -- 7/17/2001, 3:18 am
Re: Sinning in NH :D
!RUSS -- 7/17/2001, 7:32 am
Re: Sinning in NH :D
Rob Macks -- 7/17/2001, 5:09 pm
Re: Speeding in New South Wales
Andrew -- 7/17/2001, 10:25 am
my sins are why I need a fast boat
Guy Kaminski -- 7/17/2001, 1:26 am
No offfense taken.... Just a good giggle
!RUSS -- 7/17/2001, 7:25 am
Re: Faster then sin
Susan -- 7/16/2001, 5:05 pm
Re: Faster then sin
Alex Warren -- 7/17/2001, 7:16 am
Re: Faster then sin
Ken Katz -- 7/16/2001, 10:33 pm
Re: Faster then sin
Susan -- 7/17/2001, 6:18 am
Go For it
!RUSS -- 7/16/2001, 9:20 pm
Re: Skinnying it up
Don Beale -- 7/16/2001, 9:01 pm
Re: Faster then sin
Jim Kozel -- 7/16/2001, 3:05 pm
Apples and Oranges
!RUSS -- 7/16/2001, 7:12 pm
Re: Laugh ing Loon Shooting Star
Steve -- 7/16/2001, 1:58 pm
Re: Laugh ing Loon Shooting Star
Susan -- 7/16/2001, 5:43 pm
Re: Laugh ing Loon Shooting Star
Scott Fitzgerrell -- 7/16/2001, 1:07 pm
Re: Laughing Loon Shooting Star
WesT -- 7/16/2001, 12:08 pm
Re: Laugh ing Loon Shooting Star
Alex Warren -- 7/16/2001, 8:17 am
Re: Laugh ing Loon Shooting Star
Jim Kozel -- 7/16/2001, 9:27 am