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Baidarka vs Greenland
By:Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks
Date: 7/17/2001, 5:54 pm
In Response To: Faster then sin (!RUSS)

:...Remember all Bidarkas use water flow very
: differently then Greenland kayaks. That bow will give you its best when
: you most need it. Big seas and wnd will have it lifting and splitting thus
: you get stability and dryer decks ...

I've got to pipe up when people suggest one general kayak type does something radically different from another. I don't think you can generalize quite so specifically. The physics involved with a baidarka are exactly the same as for any other kind of kayak. If you make the shape below the water the same, the boats will handle flat water exactly the same regardless of the shape above the waterline. And the distribution of volume above the waterline can easily be manipulated to fall into any style designation without changing performance significantly.It is fairly trivial to make a boat that appears to be "Greenland" style have the same bottom shape generally attributed to baidarkas, and there are a lot of such designs available out there.

This is true because there is no hard and fast definition of what a baidarka hull shape should be. A quick look through the documented Aleut "Baidarkas" show huge diversity. All you need to do to make a "baidarka" is give it a bifid bow and a funky truncated stern. Nor is there a hard and fast rule about what makes "Greenland" kayak, other than they generally have long overhangs at the bow and stern. Again, there is significant diversity in the hull shapes of kayaks from Greenland. These designations are simple ways of generally describing what the profile of the boat looks like and not very meaningful with regards to how the boat performs in the water.

Interestingly enough, the reasons for the overhangs perform much the same function as the bifid bow and truncated stern. The overhangs provide reserve buoyancy above the waterline in the same way the upper jaw of the baidarka provides lift over big waves. And the overhang in the stern creates a means for have add flare in the stern which provides lift when surfing. You could take "Greenland" boat, chop off the bow and stern at ends of the waterline, and saw a notch into the bow and make a "Baidarka". This surgery would not significantly change the performance of the boat in rough conditions.

So if you are looking for a boat with specific capabilities, don't believe it when people say "Greenland" boats are "X" and "Baidarkas" are "Y". Instead, take a close look at the individual designs in question. Look at hull shape below the waterline and how the volume is distributed above the waterline. Look at rocker and cross-sectional shape. Look at flare, deck shape and the plan shape. And if possible try the boat in question.

If a given design performs nicely it is because it is a good design, not because it happens to fall in a particular class of general profile shapes.

Messages In This Thread

Laugh ing Loon Shooting Star
Susan -- 7/16/2001, 6:23 am
Darn it! Now I want to build one :D *NM*
Chip Sandresky -- 7/17/2001, 7:30 pm
Re: Yeah, I like the sound of fast
Don Beale -- 7/17/2001, 7:40 pm
Faster then sin
!RUSS -- 7/16/2001, 2:56 pm
Baidarka vs Greenland
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 7/17/2001, 5:54 pm
Re: Baidarka vs Greenland
Rob Macks -- 7/18/2001, 1:35 pm
Re: Baidarka vs Greenland
Greg Stamer -- 7/21/2001, 10:48 am
Re: Baidarka vs Greenland
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 7/19/2001, 2:41 pm
Re: Baidarka vs Greenland
Rob Macks -- 7/20/2001, 10:37 am
Re: Baidarka vs Greenland
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 7/23/2001, 11:59 am
Re: Baidarka vs Greenland
West -- 7/20/2001, 3:29 pm
Re: Baidarka vs Greenland
Rob Macks -- 7/20/2001, 4:30 pm
Re: Baidarka vs Greenland
West -- 7/20/2001, 6:13 pm
Re: Baidarka vs Greenland
Rob Macks -- 7/20/2001, 8:57 pm
Re: Baidarka vs Greenland
Rob Macks -- 7/20/2001, 11:34 am
Thought from an X Y guy
!RUSS -- 7/17/2001, 9:33 pm
Re: Thought from an X Y guy
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 7/18/2001, 9:22 am
Re: Thought from an X Y guy - seconded
Roy Morford -- 7/18/2001, 11:17 am
One or two caveats, many questions
Paul G. Jacobson -- 7/17/2001, 9:14 pm
Re: Speed testing?
Val Wann -- 7/17/2001, 1:38 pm
Sin in NH must travel at 4 knots or less :) *NM*
Paul G. Jacobson -- 7/17/2001, 3:18 am
Re: Sinning in NH :D
!RUSS -- 7/17/2001, 7:32 am
Re: Sinning in NH :D
Rob Macks -- 7/17/2001, 5:09 pm
Re: Speeding in New South Wales
Andrew -- 7/17/2001, 10:25 am
my sins are why I need a fast boat
Guy Kaminski -- 7/17/2001, 1:26 am
No offfense taken.... Just a good giggle
!RUSS -- 7/17/2001, 7:25 am
Re: Faster then sin
Susan -- 7/16/2001, 5:05 pm
Re: Faster then sin
Alex Warren -- 7/17/2001, 7:16 am
Re: Faster then sin
Ken Katz -- 7/16/2001, 10:33 pm
Re: Faster then sin
Susan -- 7/17/2001, 6:18 am
Go For it
!RUSS -- 7/16/2001, 9:20 pm
Re: Skinnying it up
Don Beale -- 7/16/2001, 9:01 pm
Re: Faster then sin
Jim Kozel -- 7/16/2001, 3:05 pm
Apples and Oranges
!RUSS -- 7/16/2001, 7:12 pm
Re: Laugh ing Loon Shooting Star
Steve -- 7/16/2001, 1:58 pm
Re: Laugh ing Loon Shooting Star
Susan -- 7/16/2001, 5:43 pm
Re: Laugh ing Loon Shooting Star
Scott Fitzgerrell -- 7/16/2001, 1:07 pm
Re: Laughing Loon Shooting Star
WesT -- 7/16/2001, 12:08 pm
Re: Laugh ing Loon Shooting Star
Alex Warren -- 7/16/2001, 8:17 am
Re: Laugh ing Loon Shooting Star
Jim Kozel -- 7/16/2001, 9:27 am