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Apples and Oranges
By:!RUSS
Date: 7/16/2001, 7:12 pm
In Response To: Re: Faster then sin (Jim Kozel)

Jim,
I was out in tern country last month. Vancover Island. The wind kicked up and we weren't going to move far on that day. So if you can't move play! :)

I was playing in 35 knot winds and some cool standing waves of 3 and 4 feet that set up in a narrrows between a set of islands were wind and tide joined forces. You can add swell to the picture to get an even more "playful visual" A set of terns joined in the fun. The terns I saw were doing very well in them. Its a great boat and I can understand your comfort in it.

I generally don't like to compare bidarkas and kayaks. They are totally different boats that use the water very differently. Both are very cool its just how you want to fly; what control surfaces you like to play with.

Having said that, I can make some general comparisons. The shooting star is a striper so it doesn't have the chines your tern does. So it carves the turn in a differnt way. Your going to get a sharper curve. The SS will get a better slip . Hard to make a comparison here different use of water. In big water A bidarka uses the lift of the opposing side when you give it a little knee. Where a Tern will use the Chine on the turn side to do the same thing. I found SS to be a boat that slips right and left a bit easier then a Tern does. I say that based on watching terns and having paddles the SS at Rendevous last year. It was way windy and I was playing her in the wind blast behind the island off the beach possibly a foot and a half. The second difference is the shooting star has a much lower wind profile then the tern. Its a very close to the water boat. Between the two I'd guess tern has the dryer deck, but SS might suprise you. Bidarkas have a way of lifting over stuff you think they just never could. Bidarkas are really airplanes in hte water. Kayaks are really seals. If that analogy makes any sense.

In initial and secondary stability. Bidarkas get more stability out of the secondary as their planning surfaces hit the water... as long as they are moving forward. Comparing the two I'd say the Tern has more initial and good secondary. The SS was darn stable in its initial even as it was lively and by design as a play boat its going to have less secondary sitting and more moving. Its really hard to make a comparison here as both boats are using the water around it very differently. If I was going to choose a rolling boat I'd choose the SS.

The real joy in a bidarka is surf landings. The cheek plates will catch the energy of the wave and drive you in and also under the wave force and the bifercated bows tendancy to lift your going to find the bidarka wants to flatten out and go straight rather then nose in or turn into the wave. For surf landings Bidarkas hands down.

The SS will feel like a lower volume boat then your tern, but it will lift over a wave and possibly have a deck that will be dryer for its size. I beleive the Tern has more capacity for trips. On longer runs I'd choose a tern. In surf a bidarka any bidarka will catch energy a yak will have to fight for. Of the two I would guess the SS would probobly sprint quicker and by a fair piece.

In the end its comparing apples and oranges. I came away from my Vancover trip with a great deal of respect for the Pygmy line up. The Tern included. I have a 2 decade long respect for bidarka's. Both boats do what they were designed to do very well.

!RUSS

Messages In This Thread

Laugh ing Loon Shooting Star
Susan -- 7/16/2001, 6:23 am
Darn it! Now I want to build one :D *NM*
Chip Sandresky -- 7/17/2001, 7:30 pm
Re: Yeah, I like the sound of fast
Don Beale -- 7/17/2001, 7:40 pm
Faster then sin
!RUSS -- 7/16/2001, 2:56 pm
Baidarka vs Greenland
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 7/17/2001, 5:54 pm
Re: Baidarka vs Greenland
Rob Macks -- 7/18/2001, 1:35 pm
Re: Baidarka vs Greenland
Greg Stamer -- 7/21/2001, 10:48 am
Re: Baidarka vs Greenland
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 7/19/2001, 2:41 pm
Re: Baidarka vs Greenland
Rob Macks -- 7/20/2001, 10:37 am
Re: Baidarka vs Greenland
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 7/23/2001, 11:59 am
Re: Baidarka vs Greenland
West -- 7/20/2001, 3:29 pm
Re: Baidarka vs Greenland
Rob Macks -- 7/20/2001, 4:30 pm
Re: Baidarka vs Greenland
West -- 7/20/2001, 6:13 pm
Re: Baidarka vs Greenland
Rob Macks -- 7/20/2001, 8:57 pm
Re: Baidarka vs Greenland
Rob Macks -- 7/20/2001, 11:34 am
Thought from an X Y guy
!RUSS -- 7/17/2001, 9:33 pm
Re: Thought from an X Y guy
Nick Schade - Guillemot Kayaks -- 7/18/2001, 9:22 am
Re: Thought from an X Y guy - seconded
Roy Morford -- 7/18/2001, 11:17 am
One or two caveats, many questions
Paul G. Jacobson -- 7/17/2001, 9:14 pm
Re: Speed testing?
Val Wann -- 7/17/2001, 1:38 pm
Sin in NH must travel at 4 knots or less :) *NM*
Paul G. Jacobson -- 7/17/2001, 3:18 am
Re: Sinning in NH :D
!RUSS -- 7/17/2001, 7:32 am
Re: Sinning in NH :D
Rob Macks -- 7/17/2001, 5:09 pm
Re: Speeding in New South Wales
Andrew -- 7/17/2001, 10:25 am
my sins are why I need a fast boat
Guy Kaminski -- 7/17/2001, 1:26 am
No offfense taken.... Just a good giggle
!RUSS -- 7/17/2001, 7:25 am
Re: Faster then sin
Susan -- 7/16/2001, 5:05 pm
Re: Faster then sin
Alex Warren -- 7/17/2001, 7:16 am
Re: Faster then sin
Ken Katz -- 7/16/2001, 10:33 pm
Re: Faster then sin
Susan -- 7/17/2001, 6:18 am
Go For it
!RUSS -- 7/16/2001, 9:20 pm
Re: Skinnying it up
Don Beale -- 7/16/2001, 9:01 pm
Re: Faster then sin
Jim Kozel -- 7/16/2001, 3:05 pm
Apples and Oranges
!RUSS -- 7/16/2001, 7:12 pm
Re: Laugh ing Loon Shooting Star
Steve -- 7/16/2001, 1:58 pm
Re: Laugh ing Loon Shooting Star
Susan -- 7/16/2001, 5:43 pm
Re: Laugh ing Loon Shooting Star
Scott Fitzgerrell -- 7/16/2001, 1:07 pm
Re: Laughing Loon Shooting Star
WesT -- 7/16/2001, 12:08 pm
Re: Laugh ing Loon Shooting Star
Alex Warren -- 7/16/2001, 8:17 am
Re: Laugh ing Loon Shooting Star
Jim Kozel -- 7/16/2001, 9:27 am