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KBBS Archive 00,000

Re: integral rudder...again

Posted By: Mark Kanzler
Date: Saturday, 29 August 1998, at 10:55 a.m.

In Response To: Re: integral rudder...again (Nolan Penney)

I'd have to disagree. As the aspect ratio gets lower and lower, the wing behaves less like an airfoil. Airfoil, by (aerodynamicists) definition is infinitely long (infinite span), and is therefore only subject to 2D flow. A wing is not an airfoil, and vice versa. In wind tunnels, the airfoil usually spans the tunnel and attaches at the walls. This is stil imperfect because where the wing joins the wall there is some interference, but data is taken at midspan when airfoil data is desired. When wing data is desired, the data is taken in "strips" along the span (sort of a checkerboard pattern of pressure ports and/or tufts)

The aspect ratio of a kayak (span / chord) is about .05, where on an airplane it's around 10 nominally. The flow around a kayak does not go from bow to stern directly, it flow upward as well.

This is not to sat that there are no airfoil effects, only that there are many other flow effects that make predicting hoe thw shape as viewed from above will effect the outcome, and corollation to airfoil data is certainly not the way to go.

A kayak is shaped more like a wingtip than like a section cut out of a wing. Because of this and its shortness in the spanwise direction (beam), I would not expect it to behave in a simple manner.

I really enjoyed the golfball article, Bill Nye is one of my all time heros. He brings science to kids in a way that is fun and understandable. When I was a kid, I was wierd because I really enjoyed science classes. I enjoyed doing experiments at home, especially where boats, airplanes, or pyrotechnics were involved.

Messages In This Thread

integral rudder...again
Tom Scheibe -- Monday, 24 August 1998, at 7:03 p.m.
Re: Flow tank testing.
Mark Kanzler -- Monday, 24 August 1998, at 8:37 p.m.
Re: integral rudder...again
Nolan -- Tuesday, 25 August 1998, at 6:46 a.m.
Re: integral rudder...again
Mark Kanzler -- Tuesday, 25 August 1998, at 10:55 a.m.
Re: integral rudder...again
John Lange -- Tuesday, 25 August 1998, at 1:01 p.m.
Re: Dagger Sitka Link
Mark Kanzler -- Tuesday, 25 August 1998, at 3:52 p.m.
Re: Dagger Sitka Link
John Lange -- Tuesday, 25 August 1998, at 4:25 p.m.
Re: Dagger Sitka Link
Mark Kanzler -- Tuesday, 25 August 1998, at 4:37 p.m.
Re: 24' x 26"??
Wynne -- Thursday, 27 August 1998, at 3:04 p.m.
Re: 24' x 26"??
Mark Kanzler -- Thursday, 27 August 1998, at 7:21 p.m.
A Picture - Rudder on a Cobra Kayak
Tom W. -- Tuesday, 25 August 1998, at 3:19 p.m.
Re: A Picture - Rudder on a Cobra Kayak
Mark Kanzler -- Tuesday, 25 August 1998, at 3:55 p.m.
Re: integral rudder...again
Tom Scheibe -- Tuesday, 25 August 1998, at 4:36 p.m.
Re: integral rudder...again
Mark Kanzler -- Tuesday, 25 August 1998, at 4:49 p.m.
Re: integral rudder...again
Tom Scheibe -- Tuesday, 25 August 1998, at 5:11 p.m.
Re: integral rudder...again
Nolan Penney -- Wednesday, 26 August 1998, at 6:31 a.m.
Re: integral rudder...again
Tom Scheibe -- Wednesday, 26 August 1998, at 2:30 p.m.
Re: integral rudder...again
Nolan Penney -- Wednesday, 26 August 1998, at 3:06 p.m.
Re: integral rudder...again
Mark Kanzler -- Friday, 28 August 1998, at 12:07 a.m.
Re: integral rudder...again
Nolan Penney -- Thursday, 27 August 1998, at 3:19 p.m.
Re: integral rudder...again
Mark Kanzler -- Thursday, 27 August 1998, at 7:09 p.m.
Re: New BBS Format
Mark Kanzler -- Thursday, 27 August 1998, at 7:14 p.m.
Re: integral rudder...again
Nolan Penney -- Friday, 28 August 1998, at 7:05 a.m.
Re: integral rudder...again
Mark Kanzler -- Friday, 28 August 1998, at 10:59 a.m.
Re: integral rudder...again
Mark Kanzler -- Friday, 28 August 1998, at 11:49 a.m.
Re: integral rudder...again
Nolan Penney -- Friday, 28 August 1998, at 3:24 p.m.
Re: integral rudder...again
chris_rolt -- Friday, 28 August 1998, at 7:14 p.m.
Re: integral rudder...again
Mark Kanzler -- Saturday, 29 August 1998, at 11:34 a.m.
Re: integral rudder...again
Mark Kanzler -- Saturday, 29 August 1998, at 11:10 a.m.
Re: integral rudder...again
Mark Kanzler -- Friday, 28 August 1998, at 11:08 a.m.
Re: integral rudder...again
Nolan Penney -- Friday, 28 August 1998, at 3:14 p.m.
Re: integral rudder...again
Mark Kanzler -- Saturday, 29 August 1998, at 10:55 a.m.
Please describe control cables
Pete Ford -- Tuesday, 25 August 1998, at 7:47 p.m.
Re: Please describe control cables
Tom Scheibe -- Tuesday, 25 August 1998, at 11:23 p.m.
Re: Please describe control cables
Mark Bodnar -- Wednesday, 26 August 1998, at 6:03 p.m.
Re: Please describe control cables
Tom Scheibe -- Thursday, 27 August 1998, at 4:29 p.m.
Re: Please describe control cables
Mark Kanzler -- Thursday, 27 August 1998, at 6:55 p.m.
Re: Please describe control cables
Nolan Penney -- Friday, 28 August 1998, at 6:49 a.m.
Re: integral rudder... another question
Edgar Kleindinst -- Sunday, 30 August 1998, at 12:01 a.m.
Re: integral rudder... another question
Joe Greenley -- Saturday, 29 August 1998, at 2:21 p.m.
Re: integral rudder... Dagger Atlantis
Mark Kanzler -- Monday, 31 August 1998, at 12:07 a.m.
Re: integral rudder on Dagger Sitka
Ross Leidy -- Tuesday, 1 September 1998, at 1:54 p.m.
Re: integral rudder... another question
Tom Scheibe -- Monday, 31 August 1998, at 2:18 p.m.
Re: integral rudder... another question
Nick Schade -- Monday, 31 August 1998, at 5:51 p.m.
Re: integral rudder... another question
Edgar Kleindinst -- Friday, 4 September 1998, at 5:29 p.m.

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